Sophie Rabe / Olive and Milo
In this episode, Sophie Rabe, founder of Olive and Milo Social, shares her path from growing up in Vermont’s Mad River Valley to building a career in digital marketing. After studying communications at Champlain College, Sophie worked in event marketing before freelancing led her to start her own agency. Sophie explains how Olive and Milo Social grew from a local business into a company with clients across the U.S. and Canada. She offers insights on choosing the right platforms, understanding analytics, and balancing posts. Sophie’s work highlights the value of small agencies and their scrappiness. Her story encourages anyone considering building a business to #starthere in Vermont.
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Transcription
Sophie Rabe
One thing we get often is, here’s our brand strategy, here’s our marketing strategy, replicate it on social. Whereas social gives you an opportunity to be a little bit more tastefully unhinged, or have a little bit more fun with it, or it doesn’t need to recite exactly what’s on the website or exactly what’s on the newsletter. There’s some platforms where being formal is more appropriate, and some where showing off culture is better.
Sam R-G
From Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies, it’s Start Here, a podcast sharing the stories of active, aspiring and accidental entrepreneurs. Today we sit down with Sophie Rabe, one of our very favorite people, and the founder of Olive and Milo Social. Welcome, this is Sam Roach-Gerber
Dave Bradbury
and Dave Bradbury,
Sam R-G
Recording from the Consolidated Communications Technology Hub in downtown Burlington, Vermont. Hi Soph.
Sophie Rabe
Hi Sam, hi David.
Dave Bradbury
Afternoon Sophie, thanks for coming by!
Sophie Rabe
I’m happy to be here!
Sam R-G
We’re so thrilled to have you. Seems like the most obvious choice for an interview. Were we saving Sophie?
Dave Bradbury
We get lobbied by so many people to have their moment here,
Sophie Rabe
I like the suspense.
Dave Bradbury
Really psyched to have you. I honestly, I didn’t think you would said yes, so yeah, maybe she had to pick up her mail.
Sam R-G
It was a scary, scary ask for us. But yeah, here we are! Sophie Rabe
Yay!
Sam R-G
Well, obviously you are a dear friend of mine, so I know you quite well, but our audience might not. So I would love to start with just your background. You’re a Vermonter, tell us about growing up here.
Sophie Rabe
Growing up here was great, and then I wanted to get out and do something bigger. So grew up in the Sugarbush area of Vermont, Mad River Valley. Skied a ton, did all the mountain girl-type things, and then went to New York City. Went to the extreme. Had a bunch of family there, went to school there for journalism and marketing, and transferred back into Champlain. And I’ve been in Burlington ever since,
Sam R-G
Oh, you missed it.
Sophie Rabe
I missed it. I had to leave to come back and re appreciate it. It felt too close to home. And then when I came back, I was like, this is the perfect..
Dave Bradbury
About how long were you gone?
Sophie Rabe
I was gone for about a year. And that was like, I was very quickly humbled that living in New York City as an 18, 19 year-old was very different than spending the weekends there with my family, as I did often. And there wasn’t much of a sense of community in the city. Like it was amazing to be there, a ton of opportunities, but really hard to just get your bearings straight when you’re just there by yourself and young and
Dave Bradbury
Were you pining to see a green license plate go by, with Vermont plates on it, or?
Sophie Rabe
I don’t know if I ever thought about that.
Dave Bradbury
Wow, wow. Woah that was a bad question, wasn’t it Sam?
Sophie Rabe
I really need to get out.
Sam R-G
So did you change your major when you transferred to Champlain?
Sophie Rabe
I kept it broad to do marketing because I knew I wanted to do marketing, communications, work with people, tell some sort of story. That’s why I originally went into journalism, but wanted to broaden it a little bit because I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. So that was like, communications was an easy thing to just slide into while I figured it out a little bit more.
Sam R-G
Totally.
Sophie Rabe
And then wanted to do event planning and early childhood Ed and social work and
Sam R-G
Oh,
Dave Bradbury
So you really knew what you wanted.
Sophie Rabe
I really knew what I wanted.
Sam R-G
Crystal clear picture.
Dave Bradbury
Very focused
Sophie Rabe
I think the underlying common denominator is that I wanted to work with people and have relationships with folks, or just continue that. But I didn’t know exactly what, but with Champlain’s curriculum, doing that would mean starting way over. So I just said, ‘Okay, let’s stick with marketing and we’ll see where it goes. And I’ve been pretty much doing what I’m doing now.
Dave Bradbury
Great, so after graduation, did you go right out on your own and found the company? Or were there some other careers along the way?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, so not quite. So I was interning for a company out west, an agency out west, and I was doing marketing for them. And it was interesting, because when I was in school, we didn’t really learn much about digital marketing. Or, like when we did, it was, and that was only, like, I don’t know, 15 years ago or so. Bu our classes about
digital marketing were like how to add a banner on the top of the website, or just how to have a website in general. So the second I started working for a digital agency, it was very kind of like 101, like people still figuring out digital stuff. So I was doing that, and then they took me on full time, and I was doing that right after Champlain, and liked it, but didn’t like the aspect of remote work. It was way before remote work was ever a thing, and I was 22 and just by myself all day, and I didn’t really… like all my friends were meeting new friends through work. So liked what I was into, but didn’t like..
Dave Bradbury
Yeah, didn’t have any connection…
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, exactly. So kept doing that while taking a couple local marketing jobs, like event marketing for a couple nonprofits here, and then naturally, kind of fell into what I’m doing now, and it went quickly from freelancing – I don’t know what I’m doing, but I’m figuring it out – to a business
Dave Bradbury
Empire.
Sam R-G
So at what point did you, you know, it sounds like you started taking on a few clients on the side, and then at what point did you realize, like, ‘Oh, I have something here, and I have to brand it and turn it into a real business?’ Can you talk a little bit about that transition? Because Dave and I see a lot of freelancers or consultants that are really kind of afraid to make that leap.
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, I remember making that leap. And I remember the first thing being like, ‘Well, what do I call it, and what is it going to look like?’ Because the visual person in myself went straight to that, versus the, I mean, I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t study business, I didn’t picture myself here. So my first thoughts were not like, ‘What’s the structure? What do I do?’ It was more like, ‘How do I how do I appear, I guess.’ And I went home and I built a website and figured out the story which kind of naturally formed, and then I kind of had to backpedal to be like, ‘Cool, I have all that forward facing stuff, but now I have all these clients, and I’m able to be out on my own. How do I kind of create the structure?’ And so creating the structure and then putting the branding that I had already kind of naturally put out there is kind of what melded everything together to feel like it was more of a business, if you will, versus kind of freelancing or just individual projects.
Sam R-G
Were there any like people or resources that helped you figure that out, like getting the sort of business pieces in place?
Sophie Rabe
You guys! And then a lot of online stuff and just picking people’s brains and figuring out as I went. A lot of my clients in the beginning were folks that I was comfortable with or had a good enough relationship with to just ask for feedback.
And I’m luckily, lucky enough to come from a pretty resourceful background, so just, I just kept asking questions…
Sam R-G
Figure shit out.
Sophie Rabe
I love asking questions.
Dave Bradbury
Yeah, like, I mean, did anybody ever say no to you?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah!
Dave Bradbury
I meant, like, for asking for help.
Sophie Rabe
Oh no, yeah.
Dave Bradbury
That’s what I meant, right
Sophie Rabe
I always remember teachers saying to me, ‘There’s no stupid questions.’ And I still believe that now, when people ask me questions, and I tried to take that mentality just being like, I’m just gonna ask questions…
Dave Bradbury
Well come hang out at my desk, and you’ll hear a lot of stupid questions coming out of yours truly, so
Sophie Rabe
I have before
Dave Bradbury
You have?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah
Dave Bradbury
Alright, fair! We’ll edit this part out, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about, so you were sort of like early days of social right, as you went through school and then got into your business. But you know, how would you describe the state of social media now, and what channels maybe should people really focus on, and maybe what ones are just probably a waste of time.
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, it changed. I mean, it changes so rapidly, like if we were recording this six months ago, my answer would probably be different. If we were recording this before the pandemic, my answer would be way different. Right now, I mean, I believe that less is more, so like showing up on a couple different platforms versus everybody… There’s, there’s this, I think, pressure for everybody to be everywhere, all day, every day. And that has proven to not be the best, you know, waste, it’s a waste of people time, spreading people’s efforts thin… So I think, you know, Instagram will always be there, even though it’s changing. Facebook is Facebook, everyone has their relationship with Facebook, but it’s the one that is recognized by SEO the most right now. It’s kind of like a secondary Google. Tiktok, there’s a lot of pressure for people to
Dave Bradbury
Really?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, because it has, like,
Sam R-G
Damn it,
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, yeah, I know, it’s becoming, you know, it has the hours, it has the reviews, it has all these, like the events, like the things that feed into Google that like the other platforms don’t have as much of… LinkedIn, a little bit, but that might change as other platforms are built out. But a lot of platforms don’t really want to build themselves out to offer… Like Instagram has made it very clear, like, we want to be a place for creative people. We don’t want to have a bunch of noise, right?
Dave Bradbury
All this stuff, yeah,
Sophie Rabe
You know, LinkedIn has become more and more of a popular place, and it’s so much more than just a resume these days. It’s great for storytelling and businesses. I’ve learned to just like love LinkedIn.
Love representing folks on LinkedIn,
Dave Bradbury
It’s like classier, it seems? There’s like less bullshit.
Sophie Rabe
Totally. It feels really rewarding to be on there and just see what folks are doing, what companies are doing. And yeah, it’s a totally different platform, behaves totally differently, like the backend, the analytics, the advertising is different, but in a good way, it’s good to have kind of an enigma out there.
Sam R-G
I have a question. So for an organization like VCET, who isn’t necessarily selling a product, like of course, we want co working members. We want people to come to us for advising, but we don’t have a product to sell. What do you think our goal should be with social
Sophie Rabe
I think culture, like, just like nurturing people, like you guys have the culture, the advising, the like, all these different pieces where, even though it’s not a product, you come here and you kind of get almost what a product would be, or what a service would be, even if that is just like the atmosphere or the culture, or just like the place to step out and get your stuff done, and I think showcasing that is the best way to, you know, even you just like, look at the Instagram, you’re like, ‘This is a fun place to be. This is a nurturing place to be. This is exciting.’ You know, ‘I could feel at home here.’ And I think that that sells, no matter the industry, that type of stuff sells more than just like, ‘Here’s my product. It’s on sale.’ How do you, what is your like, Do you like how I’m like, getting free advising here from Sophie
Sophie rabe
It’s great
Dave Bradbury
We can’t afford her anymore
Sam R-G
No, yeah, she’s a big deal. So for, you know, I think you’re totally right, it’s like, getting your vibe across, building trust with people that are following you. How often do you think, if you’re doing that and that’s your strategy, how often should we share our co-working prices, or share how to contact us for advising or get to some of that, like nuts and bolts stuff? Is there, like, a good ratio of that, between that and, like, you know, our members riding dinosaurs down the hall, for example. I’ve never heard of anyone doing that. I don’t know what you’re talking all.
Dave Bradbury
Happens all the time
Sophie Rabe
Not me! 80-20 is a good ratio that we kind of start with, but it’s not a magic number. And then you learn by doing. So sometimes we’ll say, like, ‘Let’s have this 80-20 ratio, but let’s then run reports after a couple months and see who your audience is and what they’re attracted to and what’s working for them. And let’s meet them where they are.’ And we might find that, you know, they’re really not gluing on to any of like the sales stuff or anything. But sometimes you still have to put that in there, because you have to make it known. Or, you know, if it’s a retail company, for example, people don’t really care so much about the sales or the products, but every once in a while you still have to say, ‘But here’s what’s on sale, or here’s what I’ve got in stock right now.’ So I think finding what they finding what people are attracted to, but making sure there’s a little bit of sprinkle of, you know, at the end of the day, ‘Here’s who we are and what we sell’.
Dave Bradbury
Yeah, I mean, I think I still do it, but for LinkedIn, for example, like LinkedIn groups, huge believer, where people don’t know where to go or how to engage. Like, go find a weird group where there’s 30,000 people globally talking about, you know, robots underwater or something. And it was always almost like a rule of third like, you know, engage for a third, like, share other people’s stuff and keep your mouth shut. Okay. Spend a third time introducing like new items or knowledge or insights, and then maybe, you know, find a way to humble brag or somehow weave in who you work for, but it sounds like it should be 80-20, so,
Sophie Rabe
yeah, I mean, it’s so it’s so subjective too, and behavior changes, and as the platforms change, and really depending upon what you’re talking about, also. I think most often, the most important thing is just like engaging authentically and just showing up with consistency. And then, and then, it’s less about a number or ratio or following a formula, and more just, you know, doing your thing.
Dave Bradbury
Yeah, is X? Is Twitter and X, anybody using that anymore? Or is it just sort of…
Sophie Rabe
Not many of the folks that we work with… for nonprofits, it’s sometimes important just because that’s where donors are, or press releases can be picked up or shared, or things like that. Retail, you know, some a lot of the folks that we work that are on X are people that, just like, have an older, established audience there, and they just want to maintain it. No one’s really starting it these days for
various reasons, whether it’s politics or the platform itself, or just the actual content, or just their audience not being there,
Dave Bradbury
Some of these, just the ratio of just noise and anger and like,
Sophie Rabe
Yep, exactly
Dave Bradbury
Bot manipulation. It’s really a turn off, yeah, for sure.
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, we’ve been seeing that trend a lot. A lot of people have jumped ship in the last couple years.
Sam R-G
I have another selfish question that I would like to ask, that I’m sure our audience would also
Dave Bradbury
Sam!
Sophie Rabe
Bring it on!
Sam R-G
Email marketing,
Sophie Rabe
Yes,
Sam R-G
Are open rates still king of stats for that. Or what should we be looking for with email marketing?
Sophie Rabe
But open rates are important. Um, email marketing is still important. That’s like, bottom line. There’s a lot of people out there who say, like, ‘Is email marketing, you know, even print marketing, is it still important?’ And email marketing is still so important. I think open rates are good. I think seeing how your subscribers behave, like, you know, how they’re rated, how often they open, how much time they spend on reading through your emails. You know, like VCET’s ones are short and concise and fun, that gets folks through it and keeps them engaged. And you can kind of tell between the open rate and user ability.
Dave Bradbury
Is a 50% open rate good?
Sophie Rabe
50 is good?
Dave Bradbury
Yeah?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah.
Sam R-g
Should we stop making it about us, Dave?
Dave Bradbury
Yes.
Sophie Rabe
I mean, like, for social media, like, an average engagement rate is like two to 3% so, like, percentages are small.
Sam R-G
Yeah
Sophie Rabe
I mean, of course, it depends on the audience, it depends on what you’re putting out there, but people get thrown off by percentages being like, ‘Ooh, we’re only at 10% or only at 50%, but depending upon what you’re calculating, and how it’s calculated based on, you know, impressions and all these different metrics, you know, those…
Dave Bradbury
So don’t obsess over that. So I shouldn’t be like, calling the people that didn’t open the email and say ‘Why, you’re my neighbor!’
Sophie Rabe
Maybe not.
Dave Bradbury
Yeah, I don’t do that for the record,
Sophie Rabe
or just ring the gong in their ear!
Sam R-G
There you go
Dave Bradbury
Yes! Yes
Sam R-G
What are some, I just always find this really fascinating, I’m sure you have, like, a really interesting view of it. But what are some of the biggest mistakes, or the most common mistakes you see companies make with social
Sophie Rabe
Posting just for the sake of posting I think is a big one. Again, there’s like that urgency to be like, ‘We need to show up, we need to compete, we need to do it and then,
Sam R-G
Like, they’re going for frequency over quality
Sophie Rabe
Right.
Dave Bradbury
Just keeping up with the Jones’ because they saw a post right?
Sophie Rabe
Exactly, and it’s a lot more, you know, like, a lot of times, social media these days is looked at, especially if you’re doing organic versus ads, it’s really kind of looked at as a portfolio. You know, people are using it as a search engine, or they’re doing research outside of social media, and they’re going to people’s social media almost to kind of like, back up their research findings. And if there’s just a bunch of stuff, you know, or fluff, versus, you know, like, one or two really high quality posts, you know, a week, then that’s just gonna kind of muddle it and make it just make it noisy versus really nurturing people and bringing them in. And oftentimes, when folks come to us, there’s, yeah, there’s that compulsion of just being like, ‘We want to get started right now. We want to post this many times a week.’ And it’s really about like bringing them back and saying, ‘Let’s figure out a strategy. Let’s figure out what’s reasonable to post. Let’s figure out within the budget, like, what we can make work, because the sky’s the limit with social media. But that doesn’t mean all things need to happen all at once every single day.’
Dave Bradbury
Everywhere, I know, right? It’s just spray. It’s too much, right?
Sophie Rabe
But with society, it’s, you know, and even individuals on social media, I think even we have that behavior of like, I haven’t posted in a while. Like, do people wonder what I’m up to? Like, I promise I’m up to something. So both business and society form that for I think individuals and organizations
Dave Bradbury
Sam and I have an unhealthy competition for our LinkedIn pages, and
the pressures
Sophie Rabe
Are more connected than Sam?
Dave Bradbury
No, I don’t, I don’t know that
Sophie Rabe
I mean you both have pretty killer bios.
Dave Bradbury
You just said it was all about the percentages. So saying, like, so like, you know, she’ll get 4000 views on something. I’ll try to come up with something at best that, and it’s, it’s really gotten unhealthy.
Sophie Rabe
Dave, maybe you should run down the hall as a dinosaur
Sam R-G
if you
Dave Bradbury
to the timeout room?
Sam R-G
If you had fewer typos, I think.
Dave Bradbury
Do you think that’s hurting my SEO maybe or?
Sam R-G
Well, it’s not necessarily great for brand, would be like my perspective
Dave Bradbury
Yeah, I have issues, for sure
Sam R-G
It’s fine, yeah,
Dave Bradbury
Okay, I just had to ask that.
Sophie Rabe
I could do an audit and let you know.
Dave Bradbury
No, no thanks!
Sophie Rabe
It’d be a fun one.
Dave Bradbury
All good, all good here. So what makes for a great client? So if someone’s thinking about coming into a professional or firm like yours, like, what characteristics would make them just great to work with, or not great, like, some really bad, scary traits where you probably wouldn’t take the meeting?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, that’s a great question, and something that we’ve been really trying to align with more and more so. So I think openness as a big, you know, like, there’s a fine line between we don’t want to take their social media away from them, because these are their assets. This is their company, but we’re also coming in as the experts, and so where’s the line of just like creating that trust there and helping them be open. And open more so to education and receptive to just like kind of our strategies and really understanding how social media fits in with other pieces of marketing, or just like their company in general. So like, one thing we get often is, you know, here’s our brand strategy, here’s our marketing strategy. Replicate it on social. wWereas social gives you an opportunity to, just like, be a little bit more, you know, tastefully unhinged, or have a little bit more fun with it, or it doesn’t need to recite exactly what’s on the website or exactly what’s on the newsletter. Like, there’s some platforms where being formal is more appropriate, and some where showing off culture is better
Dave Bradbury
tastefully unhinged.
Sophie Rabe
Yeah
Dave Bradbury
Right, that’s so cool.
Sam R-G
Is that your new tagline, Dave?
Dave Bradbury
Well, I have to see if can type it without typos
Sophie Rabe
You are kind of tastefully unhinged. I say that with so much love.
Dave Bradbury
Thank you, no, yeah, I took it exactly that way, and I try to be
authentically that
Sophie Rabe
Perfect. Wow. We’re really coming full circle.
Dave Bradbury
This is amazing. Do you think she knows we want, we want to hire her back. We’re not really recording. We’re just trying to butter you up
Sophie Rabe
Sold
Dave Bradbury
to get the yes
Sophie Rabe
As long as you’re open, like I said,
Sam R-G
Have you had to fire clients before? And do you have any advice on that?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, I think it’s like, we’ve found it’s hard to know until you know,
Sam R-G
yeah.
Sophie Rabe
I was telling my team at one point that it kind of feels like dating in a way where, like, you know, you get really excited about these people’s mission and company and what they have to offer, and then also sometimes just the pure fact that business is business, and you need to keep bringing business in. And then you really quickly find that maybe you don’t align with them, whether it’s you know, less about the mission and more just the dynamic of the workflow, or the dynamic of, you know, the people in the companies. But that’s super important, like if there’s especially because social media moves so quickly, so much communication is involved. And if communication can’t happen well or openly or respectfully, that is a big red flag for us, and it helps us, you know, if we can communicate well outside of social media, we can really tell their story well on social media. So that relationship has to go so much further beyond the posting itself.
Dave Bradbury
So how many dates in or months in until you go, ‘Ugh, wow, not gonna work’? Is that
Sophie Rabe
There’s been some where it’s a few months in, there’s some after the
second meeting, it’s like, ‘My gut check was, you know, kind of there, and I wanted to give it a chance. And now we’re, we’re there,’
Dave Bradbury
Interesting,
Sophie Rabe
yeah,
Sam R-G
I’m thinking about companies that are, you know, small but growing, and maybe, like, haven’t they don’t have someone in house for marketing or social, or they’re thinking about how to best use their funds that might want some like transparency into how to work with Olive & Milo or a similar company. Can you tell us just about what the process works to work with, what the process looks like to work with you? Of like, okay, they reach out. They’re like, ‘We need help with social!’ And then what happens from there?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, so I, um, I meet with them, or I talk with them. Zoom with them, depends on where they are, and I like to talk to everybody, like, sometimes they get a little bit of a hunch of this is, you know, much too small for a client. Or this isn’t necessarily an industry we want to work with, but I still just like learning and understanding what they’re doing, where they’re at, who they are. And that’s when I kind of talk to them about the different ways we work. And you know how it’s really not one size fits all, because every industry is different, every budget is different, every, you know, everyone’s goals are different. So we kind of have a conversation about that and let them know kind of the different spectrums of how we work, because there’s, there’s the full management where we really are almost, kind of like that extension of their marketing team doing all social but then there’s a lot of times, there’s a marketing team or a social team in house where we’re kind of just a smaller extension of them. Maybe we’re doing more consulting. So talking about that. And then oftentimes it’s, you know, creating proposals for these folks, knowing that there’s so much room to kind of meet in the middle and adjust it. And so that’s really
Sam R-G
Between, like, how much control you have versus their team, or whether you’re just setting up a plan and they’re executing. Or like, you can, kind of, like, move the needle based on how much they need?
Sophie Rabe
Totally, those are, those are kind of the two spectrums, and it really depends on what they have going on in house,
Dave Bradbury
And that might change over time too, right?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah
Dave Bradbury
The confidence of the business to go for a managed service model with you to in-house somebody,
Sophie Rabe
Yeah – we found that working month to month with folks, not to say that we need to, like, you know, re negotiate every month, or re sign every month, but month to month just works really well, because folks are seasonal, or things change, or companies scale, and that’s when they need more help, where they end up bringing folks in-house, but they still need a little bit of that external help. And so the, or platforms change, like things might change on our end, where we just say, hey, we need to pivot your strategy because of not you guys, but
Dave Bradbury
the mobs going this way, right?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, so having that flexibility is good for for everyone involved.
Dave Bradbury
Can I ask you a little bit about pricing?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah
Dave Bradbury
And you know how you figured that out along the way? Because that’s not always clear, right? And sometimes people don’t realize their value at some point or over… they think they’re worth more than they are. Like, it’s so, like, messy, but you seem to have figured it out. So give us the way.
Sophie Rabe
Thanks. Have I? I undersold myself for a long time, and because I hadn’t, I had no idea, and I think that’s so common, that was one of, like, the main questions I asked, or kind of one of the things I was just observing a lot from other folks, but taking into consideration where they were located, who they were working with. Companies have changed, you know, what they’re willing to invest too, so a lot of the ways that I change was kind of, what’s your budget and what is your goals, and how can I kind of find a way to work within that? And that’s how I started to kind of gage, like initial retainers. And I don’t work in packages as much as I wish I could be like A, B or C, but it’s just, no two people are the same. And so that’s kind of how I
started, was just figuring, figuring that piece out. And from there, I realized, ‘Okay, my time is way more than this, or I’m way under.’ And from there, I was able to gage a little bit more. And sometimes we have to renegotiate, because we find out that people demand more or demand less. And so still, it’s always a work in progress, but it’s, you know, the structure comes, I think, with experience for sure.
Dave Bradbury
For sure
Sam R-G
What were the indicators that you were under charging like were was it just like, everyone was saying yes right away, no problem. Or like, Were you just realizing that you were working way too hard and not making them enough? Like, what were the triggers that helped you figure that out?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, all of the above. I was getting, I was closing most deals, and a lot of that was.. I had to measure that, because a lot of that was right place, right time, where I kind of everyone needed social all of a sudden, and it was super new, and I kind of just showed up at the right time, and I really didn’t have any competition. Some of it was just like, you know, folks saying, ‘Great, I can afford that.’ But I also had the other end where people think that, you know, social media is really just about, kind of taking a picture and posting, and there’s not much to it. So when it comes to pricing, they’re like, well, ‘What could you possibly be doing for that many hours?’ So learning from feedback like that, and then, you know, initial burnout in the beginning and working too many hours, it’s had to go through the motions of that.
Dave Bradbury
There’s always a trade off between the transaction that I want at low cost, yeah, in the relationship or the trust and all that, which is high value, the strategy stuff, I don’t know, kind of cool that you’re able to toggle it between those, those points over time with different folks.
Sophie Rabe
And sometimes we still do, because sometimes there’s some companies that just, we just really, I mean, I feel fortunate to be in this position now, but we just really, really want to work with them and help them out. So having a little bit of wiggle room there to be able to toggle is, you know,
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Dave Bradbury
So what are you thinking about with generative AI? Elections? Geopolitics? Just like, the noise and what’s true, what’s not like,
Sophie Rabe
That’s loaded Dave
Dave Bradbury
Howe are you preparing your clients for this stuff?
Sophie Rabe
So we, it’s interesting because we’ve, this started the first time Trump got elected, we saw a ton of people jumping ship off Facebook, and we didn’t really correlate that until we got, we were running reports, and we were realizing that a lot of people were deleting their Facebooks, or they were getting off Facebooks, and when political stuff just started happening and then becoming more and more popular on social media platforms, we are realizing that how to figure out who’s, you know, who’s unfollowing a company because they’re not interested in a company, versus who’s just straight up getting off social media and has nothing to do with the company at all. And it’s hard to figure that out, but that’s been like a topic of conversation with clients when we’re going through data, and we do see a drop off point. And it’s interesting, because you do see that drop off point right around when things like this erupt, whether it’s elections or just hot topics like that. In terms of AI, we’re still exploring it. I think there’s a time and place for it, for sure, I’m really eager to see where it goes. Meta has been making a lot of changes on it, so we’re kind of at the mercy of that, whether we want to or not. I think the one thing for us is that, you know, a lot of people are using it to write things, and we are pretty against that, just because clients hire us to tell our stories, and we have such intimate relationships with them, and know their stories so well that if we are not telling it through our lens and through what we learn from them, then it just feels like an absolute shortcut, or just not doing it justice whatsoever, and really goes against what they’re investing in. Some of the feedback that we get of why people want to work with a small agency or consultants is because they have the capacity to really understand who these brands are and spend time in their, in their space. And so that’s something that I just feel like can’t be replaced. Well, some of the time management and other tools like that, I think it’s great. So we’re a little bit in between right now,
Sam R-G
yeah, keeping an eye on things.
Sophie Rabe
Yeah,
Sam R-G
you mentioned that you’re a small agency. Do you want to stay that way? And if so, why?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, I’m learning. I don’t want to there, You know, there’s always the pressure to grow or not, not even the pressure, but the eagerness to grow and to be big and successful. And I think there’s this notion of, like, the bigger you are, the more successful you are. And things ramp up quickly, and then you kind of find out there’s some, you know, simplicity in it, as like you and I have talked a lot about, and you can actually get a lot more done and be a lot more proficient and have, you know, deliver much more meaningful stuff. Of course, this depends on the company and the industry, but in my situation, when we have, you know, a small team that works together, and that initial feedback I learned about seven years ago or so from big clients themselves. These were, you know, big corporate clients. And that’s where my imposter syndrome was just like at its peak. And I was just like, I was 27 at the time, and I was saying, you know, ‘You guys are these, this big corporation that has budgets for these, you know, huge Boston, New York city agencies. Why me, this girl in her 20s in Vermont,’ and they just said, we want one expert in one thing. And I heard that from three or four big national brands, and that stuck with me. And so while I’ve grown because I have wanted to grow and needed some support and wanted to expand a little bit on, you know, what I could do, and just like couldn’t do myself, I don’t want to get out of that bubble that people really seem to appreciate these days.
Sam R-G
I love that. I think that’s so important. I think a lot of us feel that pressure that just bigger is better and somehow more successful. But that’s just not always the case, right? It depends on what your goals for your business are, or your life, what you want your life to look like. And I try to remind folks that we work with that, you know, I think there’s this negative connotation with, like, lifestyle business, right? Like, it sounds like you’re doing it as a hobby, and it’s not right, like you’re employing yourself and others, you’re paying your bills, you’re profitable. And I think I’m starting to see more and more people, like, realize that, like, that’s actually what they want and like, it’s other people that have pressured them to try to scale something that’s not scalable, and it it might be technically scalable, but you might be fucking miserable, right?
Sophie Rabe
Right,
Sam R-G
or whatever. You might just kind of lose control of what you’re doing or who you’re hiring or whatever. So I love that you have, you’ve kind of realized that about yourself, and sort of found that sweet spot
Sophie Rabe
Yeah, it was an important learning lesson that I think everyone has to learn of some sort at some point. But yeah,
Dave Bradbury
so you’re a big supporter of internships. Why put up with that BS, why do you do it? As our as our intern looks on,
Sophie Rabe
they’re great. They’re they’re open to learn. They’re eager to learn. And oftentimes you can keep them after graduation. My one of my rock stars, Kayla, she’s been with me for four years now, and came in as as an intern. And it’s really cool to see, to see them grow with the company. And it’s it’s an honor to have them grow with us. And I think when you kind of find, find those folks and find those opportunities, I love it, and so our capacity has changed for them over time, like I remember back in my old VCET days when it was just me, I really just like, need an intern to help me with some smaller stuff. Now that’s definitely changed as we’ve grown and you know, have a few other people on the team. But I mean, I loved my internships, and I learned the best by doing. So for me, as much as I loved being in the classroom, I definitely learned way more and enjoyed it way more when I was actually out in the field and doing so; and so to be able to have that opportunity and give that opportunity, feels, Feels good, feels full circle
Dave Bradbury
As sort of digital natives, as they come in, are they up-mentoring at all to you and your team? Like, are they coming in with different things?
Sophie Rabe
In a way! Yeah, sometimes, like, just fresh perspective, younger perspective, especially because with social media, it’s like, at this point, I feel like I’m an older person using social media, which is wild.
Dave Bradbury
That’s terrifying. No, you’re not. You’re just getting going.
Sophie Rabe
That’s what I thought, but I was humbled. So I learn a lot. Yeah, the, you know, interns bring in fresh perspective and just ideas and trends
that I can’t keep up on myself. Or it’s the cobbler shoes I don’t have time to keep up on them, or I don’t want to look at them.
Sam R-G
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen like us, like an Instagram post from you personally.
Sophie Rabe
No, I just, I can’t, I get home and I’m I’m done with social media. Or I browse, but yeah,
Sam R-G
Are you like, ever allowed to turn your phone off?
Sophie Rabe
No!
Sam R-G
Yeah.
Dave Bradbury
What do you do to chill out like you get home and like you have a hobby?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah. I mean, I craft a lot, I read a lot. I am outside a ton.
Dave Bradbury
So the opposite of screens and instantaneous connection.
Sophie Rabe
Yeah yeah, it’s always kind of there.
Sam R-G
This might be a good time to ask about the origin of the name Olive & Milo.
Dave Bradbury
Could you tell me why, what you just asked, I don’t need to!
Sam R-G
Well, no, I’m just saying, like, now that was me asking there,
Sophie Rabe
Here we go. Okay, so olive, olive is a pig and Milo is a cat.
Sam R-G
And they both live in your home
Sophie Rabe
They both live in my home. Olive, well, they both go outside and say, olive goes aside. They both go outside, best buds. They’re cuddle, cuddle buddies. So when I was working for that agency that I mentioned before, and I was remote, social media was like, hardly a thing. I think this 2014 or so, I had just started my personal Instagram, like, a year or so before, and they said, ‘Go out, make an Instagram and, you know, for the company, or like, let us know for the company if we should be using it for business. People are just starting to do it for business on on Facebook and Instagram, and we want to know if we should be. And I said, ‘Cool, I’ll make one for the company now. And they said, No, not for the company. Do it on your own.’
Sam R-G
Just to, like, test it out?
Sophie Rabe
Just to test it out like, you know, kind of see what’s out there. Understand, you know how people respond? And I, at the time, it was like an unwelcome challenge, and then it became a very welcome challenge, because I was eager to learn and eager to experiment. I think I was just really stuck by like, what the heck am I gonna do if I can’t do it for the company, like, I’m not gonna do it for myself? Like, even selfies were a taboo back then. So I made an Instagram for Olive and Milo, and it blew up. And unknowingly, I didn’t tell anybody it was me. I was just, I completely just
Sam R-G
Amazing.
Sophie Rabe
If people followed me that I knew I just completely disregarded it, yeah, and then people said, ‘Can you help me with mine? Can you help me with mine? Can you help me with mine?’ And that’s kind of how I started, just like finding myself just advising, in a way, and moving into that almost freelancing, if you will. And of course, poor Olive’s account has not been touched in three years because I can’t keep up.
Sam R-G
Listen, all this got you where you are today, man
Sophie Rabe
I mean, I like to remind her of that daily when she really pushes our buttons that I am just like, working away under her name so she can have a lavish lifestyle. But, yeah, they got us where we are.
Sam R-G
I love it. Yeah, you don’t meet someone with a pet pig every day.
Sophie Rabe
Most emails are addressed to hi Olive and Milo. And sometimes I really
just wish, oh, that’s really fun with just like an oink or Yeah, who knows?
Sam R-G
You give back to our community in many ways. One of them is, you’re on Vermont’s Commission on Women. Can you tell us how you got involved with that? What it is, why you do it, what it means to you?
Sophie Rabe
Yeah! I love marketing. I have such a passion for marketing, but I have such a passion for other things as well. And so, you know, while boards can be fulfilling, boards have their own, you know, woes sometimes, and the Commission behaves in a different way, and the Commission on Women is really about just creating equity for women or those who identify as women, families in Vermont, whether it’s paid family leave or jobs or housing, health care, caretaking. And my mom was in politics, but when I was born, she was actually the chair of the, at the time, it was the Governor’s Commission on Women. Now it’s just the Commission on Women. There’s a few different sectors of people who appoint you, whether it’s the Speaker of the House, the governor, the couple other ones, and I’ve always been really inspired by her work. I at one point thought I would run for state rep, and then saw her do it, and was like, ‘That’s great, but that looks really hard.’
Sam R-G
That looks really hard.
Dave Bradbury
Not yet!
Sophie Rabe
Not yet – I still say ‘Not yet.’ And so being part of these commissions was just like a way to get my foot in the door, but still feel like I can make an impact and just be in a room with a lot of really amazing folks. So I got appointed by the governor a couple years ago, and you know, we meet once a month, and I just, every time I walk away from it, being like, ‘Yes, I’m going to go back to my desk. I love my clients, I love my work, but that was just so fulfilling in another way.’ And it’s, it’s important to have that balance.
Dave Bradbury
Thank you for doing that. It’s important.
Sam R-G
That’s so awesome. And how cool that your mom was on it when you were born. That’s really special.
Sophie Rabe
I know… I’m like, the first legacy.
Sam R-G
Legacy let’s go.
Sophie Rabe
It’s something like that.
Sam R-G
I love it.
Dave Bradbury
You’re like the Kennedy clan of the valley! But without the worms in your brain.
Sophie Rabe
Don’t let that get to me.
Dave Bradbury
So what’s next for Olive & Milo?
Sophie Rabe
We’re gonna keep going. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of exciting stuff. I get excited about it a lot. We kind of take a step back sometimes and see how if things change, whether it’s with us, whether it’s with clients, we want to align with. What’s out there, and pivot if we need to, don’t pivot if we don’t need to, and keep going until we figure it out. But we have, we have such a great client roster right now. We’re really digging into some new, exciting clients. And yeah, somehow it’s been eight years.
Sam R-G
Yeah, you have more work to do Soph!
Sophie Rabe
More work to do, always more work to do
Dave Bradbury
To be continued, Sam,
Sam R-G
So who should reach out? What type of companies can you help support?
Sophie Rabe
I mean, all really, which is the fun thing? Like, we have a huge range of companies, but that’s what keeps it interesting and fun. I think, you know, people ask me all the time, are you ever going to hone in on just one type of industry? And sometimes I think there’s a lot of logic in that. Other times I think that the burnout would feel more quick, or the relationships would be different. So I love, just like
hearing about what anyone has going on.
Sam R-G
Hell yeah
Dave Bradbury
Cool. It’s magic wand time. Okay, you’ve shown
Sam R-G
You know magic wand time, Sophie, this should not be a surprise.
Sophie Rabe
It’s been a while
Dave Bradbury
and you clearly have magic powers. So if you could change one thing in Vermont with your magic wand, what would it be?
Sophie Rabe
This is tough. Um… Okay, paid leave, sick leave, family leave, just yeah and resources, not only for the families, but for the business owners who want to give it to the families.
Sam R-G
Yes. Amen.
Sophie Rabe
yes, yes, yes.
Sam R-G
Mic drop
Dave Bradbury
OK, so, sounds like your campaign’s ready for when that not yet becomes right now.
Sam R-G
Yeah,
Sophie Rabe
At least my campaign would have good social media, right?
Sam R-G
You are gonna have so many Emails and phone calls after this, they’re desperate.
Sophie Rabe
Great. My inbox is almost empty and ready for them.
Sam R-G
They’re gonna go like, ‘thank God!’
Dave Bradbury
Well, this has been Start Here, at podcast sharing the stories of active, aspiring, and accidental entrepreneurs. This series is supported by the Vermont Technology Council and Consolidated Communications. Thank you for listening, and let’s get back to work.
