Rob Conboy / Glavel
Rob Conboy, CEO of Glavel, shares his journey from working at Burton to founding a company that transforms recycled glass into sustainable insulation. He reflects on how Vermont’s emphasis on sustainability and innovation inspired him to bring foam glass technology from Europe to the U.S. Rob explains how Glavel’s products reduce embodied carbon in construction, create green jobs, and help companies meet their sustainability goals. He also discusses local Vermont partnerships that will make Glavel 100% renewable next year. Rob’s journey will encourage you to #starthere in beautiful Vermont!
Are you interested in learning more about Vermont’s entrepreneurial success? Make sure you check out our Instagram and LinkedIn, or simply get the scoop from our newsletter!
Rob Conboy
Just know that even though you have a road map for your capital
structure and follow-on investments, that if it’s not in your bank,
it’s not real. Things change – partners, situations change – and you
have to just always be developing that capital stream.
Sam R-G
From Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies, it’s Start Here, a
podcast sharing the stories of active, aspiring and accidental
entrepreneurs. Today we sit down with Rob Conboy, founder and CEO of
Glavel, the light white bulk aggregate made from recycled glass.
Welcome. This is Sam Roach Gerber
Dave Bradbury
and Dave Bradbury
Sam R-G
recording from the Consolidated Communications Technology Hub in
downtown Burlington, Vermont. Rob, hello!
Rob Conboy
Hello, thanks for having me, you guys, this is fantastic.
David Bradbury
Thanks for letting us get on your dance card. You’re a busy fella.
Rob Conboy
Yeah, yeah. Lots of good stuff happening.
Sam RG
I have heard so many wonderful things about you from so many wonderful
people, and this is our very first time meeting. Can’t believe it.
Rob Conboy
Good to meet you.
Sam R-G
I blame you know,
Rob Conboy
you know,
Sam R-G
yeah,
Dave Bradbury
Wow,
Sam R-G
yeah, the gatekeeper over there, you know?
David Bradbury
Yeah, I’m known for that. Yeah.
Sam R-G
Alright, Rob, I want to, because this is the first time we’re meeting.
I want to hear a little bit about you. So I’d love to hear about pre
Glavel – what’s your background?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, so I found my way to Vermont. At the time, I was working for all
things, a beef jerky company in California.
Sam R-G
What! Wouldn’t have guessed.
Rob Conboy
I know – wouldn’t have guessed. And I basically stalked Burton and
really wanted to move to Vermont. And you know, while I was
interviewing and thanking people for their interviewing time, I would
send bags of beef jerky as my thank you. And so I got, once I got the
job, I was known as the beef jerky guy,
Dave Bradbury
the meat stick.
Rob Conboy
It wasn’t meat stick.
Dave Bradbury
What’s the difference between meat stick and – is it just different?
Alright we won’t do that
Rob Conboy
Yeah, no, this was premium beef jerky
Sam R-G
nice and dry,
Rob Conboy
yes, it was a product that was sold in price clubs and Costcos,
specific gold
Sam RG
Damn that would have worked on me instantly.
David Bradbury
Alright, so for all those looking for a job, pro tip
Rob Conboy
Yeah, and I actually was afforded the opportunity to manage a channel
in Guam and Saipan to Japanese customers. So it was a very specific
set of flavors for them, and I got to manage it soup to nuts. So the
development of the flavor set on island with focus groups and go to
market strategy was just, I was it was an incredible time to be at
Pacific Sun and to be afforded that in my 20’s
Sam R-G
Sounds like a really fun job.
Rob Conboy
Yeah, it really was. It really was. And the only thing that was going
to be more fun was to come work for Burton. So I landed the job,
packed up, and came and started working at Burton. I was there in the
late 90s, early 2000s, and then from Burton, realized that I wanted to
get an MBA, but wanted to get a green MBA. So I applied to UVM, got
into their MBA program, and concurrently left Burton to go work at
Seventh Generation. So I kind of did the tour of companies here in
Vermont, and while at Seventh Gen, finished the MBA program. I have a
claim to fame: I have the first sustainable MBA from UVM.
Dave Bradbury
You were a pioneer back in the day,
Sam R-G
Nice!
Rob Conboy
right back in the day, yeah, so it didn’t exist, but I took all of my
elective courses in the School of Natural Resources.
Sam R-G
So cool
Rob Conboy
yeah?
Sam R-G
Well, they clearly liked what you did
Rob Conboy
Yeah, and years later, they now have the SIMBA program. Yeah, it’s
kind of cool. And then post Seventh Gen hung up my shingle and was
doing some consulting with sustainable businesses, landed at Draker
Labs, which was a solar monitoring company and served as the COO
there. Post Draker Labs, bounced around to a couple of different
startups and then landed at a startup called Better. It was a
brainchild of my business partner, David Benjamin, who wanted to bring
financing to energy efficient buildings at the commercial scale, and
set off, grew a stable of financers and grew projects and try to get
people to marry. And it was a big challenge. Other groups like VEIC
has also tried to offer that kind of service as well, and it was hard,
and been doing it for about four years. And David would send me to
Germany every year to attend an energy efficient building conference,
and I was about to go to the conference yet again, and I said, ‘David,
we’ve got to find another revenue stream. How about we create a
platform by which we bring technologies over from Europe to help bend
the cost curve to deliver energy efficient buildings?’ He said, ‘That
sounds good.’ I actually sat down with Lee Bouyea from FreshTracks
before going, and said, ‘Hey, Lee, does this sound like a crazy idea?’
And he’s like, ‘No, go try it,’ you know, in that sort of Lee fashion,
like, what?
Sam R-G
Yeah, totally, you know. We love him for it.
Rob Conboy
So I land in in Germany, and I’m attending, we have a little booth at
the conference in Darmstadt, and I had this platform by which we were
looking for groups to sort of beach head here in North America. And,
you know, there were some heat recovery units that seemed interesting.
There were some window companies that I was kind of excited about,
because they had a interesting twist on energy efficient windows that
were in line with kind of the look and feel of New England. That was
really exciting. But then I was introduced to foam glass gravel by a
gentleman named Flores who runs an import company down in New York,
and we set off to try to bring foam glass to the United States. So
Sam R-G
wow,
Rob Conboy
Yeah, so that was 2016. Spent a fair chunk of time from that point on
exploring manufacturers in Europe to see, you know what the best
practices were, that sort of thing, and we were trying to set up shop
down in New York. So really, initially, the plan was to take glass
from New York City and turn it into a building material that then
would be used in New York. And I think we spent all of 2017 going to
multiple meetings with the EDC down in New York to try to figure out
how we could do that, but just couldn’t quite get it there. And in
January of 2018 we made the decision to bring it to Vermont.
Dave Bradbury
Wow
Rob Conboy
and that’s what we did.
Dave Bradbury
So let’s just put a pin in the Glavel journey for a sec. What’s wrong
with you? Why do you keep going to all these companies like, what’s
the thread of, you know, are you upset at how practices are done
today, or is it just this broader sustainability priority of yours?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, I think at my core, it is the broader sustainability and the
urgency with which we have to address the carbon problem, and that’s
what we’re looking to do with the product of foam glass gravel. So
that’s the, I would say, the primary driving force, that if I’m going
to wake up every morning and work this hard, it’s got to be for
something that is going to hopefully leave a better planet for our
kids. So that really is the driving force. I recently just spent time
with my brother on the Oregon coast, and we were sort of talking about
what’s wrong with us.
Sam RG
As siblings will,
Rob Conboy
As siblings will. And he’s just, he pointed out, like I was just sort
of lamenting, that this has just been a, you know, it’s hard.
Dave Bradbury
Right
Rob Conboy
This is not an easy journey. And he basically looked at me and said,
‘Well, if it was easy, would you want to do it?’ And the answer is,
‘No,’ you know, you’re sort of wired to want that challenge and wired
to do the hard stuff.
Sam R-G
So true. Oh, my God
Dave Bradbury
Alright. So I had to ask that Sam, like, yeah, he’s been like a moth
to the sustainability flame for a long time
Sam RG
I love it. Well it’s taken you to, you know, so many different types
of companies. I think that’s, that’s really cool. And, you know, makes
for a great entrepreneur, right? As you’ve seen, seen a lot. So I want
to talk a little bit more specifically about the product. You brought
us some raw materials to look at, and the finished product, which is
super cool. Can you tell us, How is this manufactured? How does it
work?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, so foam glass, one of the things that I was attracted to back in
2016 was that it takes recycled glass that has little or no value –
you can hear it clinking in the background – and turns it into a
highly sought after building material that has thermal properties as
well as it’s a lightweight fill. So all kinds of boxes were checked
for me back in 2016, the recyclability, the the romance of creating
green jobs, the fact that it had been on the market in 2016 for about
20 years. So it wasn’t a science experiment. We weren’t hoping this
product would work – it had a solid track record. So there’s a lot of
risk mitigation that was really attractive to bringing the product to
market. And what we’ve done was in 2019, with the intrepid Greta
Thunberg crossing the Atlantic, realized that we had to take the
carbon out of the process. And all the other manufacturers of foam
glass are essentially burning fossil fuels in the form of natural gas
to heat their kilns, and we were the first out of the box electric
kiln in the world, here in Vermont, to use our virtual carbon free
electrons from – thank you Green Mountain Power – to produce a very
low embodied carbon building material
Sam RG
Cool. So what is the thermal component?
Rob Conboy
Yeah! So basically, the little bubbles in this lightweight aggregate
serve as that, that thermal insulation component. So as you compact
the product about a third and install it under a slab of a building,
it replaces the rigid foam board product that would typically be used
for insulating below slabs in colder climates. It really is a two for
one solution. So in addition to that foam board, builders and site
managers would do three eight stone, about six inches of 3-8 stone,
and then about four or five inches of rigid foam board to get that
same insulative quality. And that’s what our good friends at OnLogic
did, just off of 89, they used our product. They have all kinds of
great videos on YouTube, everyone should go check out singing the
praises and the cost benefits of using our product versus the
traditional way of insulating below the slab. And that’s probably the
other huge component is, there’s no green premium. So we’re not out
there convincing people to spend 10, 20, 15% more to do the right
thing, or the green thing, or the low carbon thing, we’re actually
saying there’s labor savings to be had, and overall cost savings to be
had by using this product versus the traditional means to insulate
below slab.
Sam R-G
Yeah, that’s not usually what you hear
David Bradbury
So the process is, you, you get sorted glass or just, can use all
glass, or does it have to be a certain type?
Rob Conboy
Yeah we’re focusing on recycled glass. So taking recycled glass,
cleaning it to less than 1% not glass, and then grinding it into a
powder that kind of looks like baking flour. So King Arthur flower,
kind of looking feedstock. And into that we add glycerin and sodium
silicate, which is the foaming agent. And basically we start with a
layer of the powder, and it runs through the kiln, reaches the
temperatures in the 1500 to 1600 degree Fahrenheit. I kind of refer to
it as a souffle. And it just, it rises with the in the oven.
Dave Bradbury
And then how long does it have to cure for after it comes out? Does it
come out in that shape?
Rob Conboy
Well, it comes out in sort of a slab, but it cools very quickly on the
cooling table to start creating the fracturing and the aggregate shape
that that we have here. There are board forms of foam glass. Our
partner, Glapor, in Germany, does a board form of of foam glass.
They’re the only ones in the world that have done it with recycled
glass.
Dave Bradbury
Got it, so just for listeners, this is about a palm sized, I don’t
know, four inch by four inch, sort of irregular shaped rock,
Rob Conboy
yeah,and this is a on the larger side. You know, does run the gamut,
because it does sort of fracture. The product is delivered on site in
either a three cubic yard bag or these large sort of walking floor
trailers that deliver about 130 cubic yards for larger projects like
OnLogic. And, you know, simple installation, you spread it out and you
compact it about a third, and that unlocks the thermal capabilities
and the compressive strength as well.
Dave Bradbury
So cool.
Sam R-G
We were at the opening of the OnLogic building and and Glavel was
mentioned, and I said, ‘Oh, man, we gotta ask Rob about that.’ So I’d
love to hear more about that partnership, that project, how it came
about. Just really interested to hear about that.
Rob Conboy
Yeah, really it came from the dedication on the OnLogic side, to have
the most sustainable building that they could possibly build, with a
keen eye to embodied carbon when they set out to on their journey for
designing the building is really at the early stages of awareness
around embodied carbon in building materials, and that really has
exploded. And yeah, we were a natural fit given the location, because
when you’re calculating embodied carbon, the distance with which
you’re traveling with the materials matters.
Sam R-G
Right
Rob Conboy
So the fact that we were in Essex, and the project is just off 89 was
also a component, not just the product itself. I mentioned the
lightweight nature of our product when looking at embodied carbon and
the total embodied carbon of the materials used on site, you’re also
calculating, you know, heavy stone that, you know, multiple trucks to
travel that heavy stone sort of adds up the carbon as well. So we
were, we hit all the the notes for OnLogic in hitting their goals.
Sam R-G
So cool. And so can you talk a little bit more you touched on it, but
like, what is Glavel actually replacing from a traditional build?
Rob Conboy
From a traditional build, it is the for the build environment, it is
for the three-eighths stone that is the drainage layer and then the
rigid foam board that you know,
David Bradbury
Oh that’s the pink foam you see floating around a construction site?
Rob Conboy
yeah, exactly, yeah. That’s what it replaces. It’s a two for one
solution.
Sam R-G
That’s awesome
Rob Conboy
In the infrastructure side. So they’re two large addressable markets,
the built environment and infrastructure. And in Europe, it’s sort of
split 50-50, in terms of the sales of the product. On the
infrastructure side, it’s used as a lightweight fill for embankments.
If you’ve got bridges you want embankment stabilization for the bridge
components that are on either side of the ravine, and it’s just a
fantastic lightweight fill to replace really large geofoam blocks that
are typically used. So again, it is really a story of eliminating the
use of a lot of petroleum products that often have a lot of nasty
chemicals embedded in them as well.
Break
You’re listening to Start Here, a podcast from Vermont Center for
Emerging Technologies. VCET is a public benefit corporation serving
Vermont businesses from start to scale. We provide no cost strategic
business advising for any business owner, regardless of stage or
industry, as well as venture capital for early stage tech or tech-
enabled businesses. You can find us online at vcet.co. That’s V–C–E–T,
dot C–O. If you like what you’re hearing, please help us out and rate,
review, and subscribe to our podcast today. Now, back to the show.
Dave Bradbury
So talk a little bit about, you know, is it competition in the market
directly, or is it, are you competing against sort of existing
practices and legacy behaviors? So just maybe, just comment about how
you view it. And then, you know what, what the comparisons look like
when you go head to head with another competitor or alternative?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, again, the the big thing is that we’re not having to compete on
price. So that opens doors.
Dave Bradbury
You’re at the table,
Rob Conboy
You’re at the table. And then it does become like, ‘How does this
thing work? How do you compact it? What’s it feel like?’ And it is a,
you know, I felt like snowboarding had a very, fairly steep curve. I
picked it up kind of quickly. Same sort of thing with this product:
once the site guys, the excavators, start working the product, they
they get a feel for it fairly quickly.
Dave Bradbury
So there’s an education component, right?
Rob Conboy
Exactly. And then you, from that, the repeat sales kind of come, and
you get the believers fairly quickly in terms of folks saying, ‘Okay,
we’re going to standardize on foam glass for projects moving forward,’
which is what the folks at ReArch, who were the contractors for the
OnLogic project, have said that they’re believers.
Sam RG
That’s amazing. It’s really a whole different level when they say that
after using it, right?
Rob Conboy
Exactly, exactly, exactly. But yeah, so it is an education process,
and that varies from types of projects.
Dave Bradbury
So how are you going about that education? I mean, are you doing like,
you know, if you were launching a food product, you go stand in the
aisle of a supermarket and say, ‘Hey, Taste it. Taste my beef jerky.’
Rob Conboy
Yeah.
Dave Bradbury
But how do you do that in a construction world? Is it trade shows?
Rob Conboy
There’s trade shows, there’s lunch and learns. We often offer,
depending on the size of the project, we can do test strips so that
folks can get product in advance of, you know, going whole hog with
the, you know, 100,000 square foot facility. You know, let’s do a
little test strip so you can get the feel for how the product works.
So that’s typically how we kind of mitigate that first user
experience.
Sam R-G
So was Glavel the first company that you started from the beginning?
Rob Conboy
Yes, yeah.
Sam R-G
I, one of my favorite things to ask about is just the earliest days,
like really starting to get off the ground. Can you like, you know,
I’m sure it feels like a million years ago now, but, but think about
some of those early days. And you know, how did you get off the
ground? What were some of the first things you did? And, you know, if
you were to talk to a first time entrepreneur, maybe some advice that
you would give,
Rob Conboy
Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, just every day, how to mitigate
risk. Again, I came to a product that I felt had a very low risk
profile, but always looking at financial risk, adoption risk, you
know, where are all the different risk profiles, and how can I
minimize those risks is first and foremost. So early days, we started
with the classic friends and family round to essentially seed the
market. And we had landed a fantastic partner in Glapor, over in
Germany, that was going to supply us product. We were working on
incredibly tight margins, but it was about getting validation and presence out in the market. And, you know, you have to
be sort of corny, but you have to be adaptable. We couldn’t have
predicted COVID. Nobody could, which created a situation where we
could no longer import product and be cost competitive.
Sam R-G
Yeah
Rob Conboy
Container prices just got irrational.
Sam RG
At what point did that hit? Like? How far along were you in that?
Rob Conboy
Yeah. So actually, COVID was a good year for us. We imported quite a
bit of product in 2020. Construction was deemed to be an essential
activity, so they really didn’t see a dip in the projects. But it was
really once in ’21 where it was clear that we couldn’t import product
any longer that really drove the process to say, ‘Okay, we’re ready.
We know that there’s demand for the product. So how do we convince the
capital to come to the table?’ And you know, this isn’t a .com. These
are big kilns and lots of expense to be generating the product, to
generate the profits. That’s a challenging animal, right, both from
the VC side, who you know are a little bit weary of putting money into
a capital intensive company, but also just securing the the debt for
the equipment. Early days wasn’t easy.
Sam R-G
So did COVID just sort of accelerate the rate at which you wanted to
start manufacturing? Or would it?
Rob Conboy
Yes and no. I think it was in that timeline. It just, the urgency
there. It was no longer an option,
Sam R-G
Right. Which is kind of nice, right? I mean, it, I’m sure, at the time
super challenging, but sometimes you need that sign from the universe
to just make it happen, right? Because obviously, is an uphill battle to build that, like you said,
super capital intensive. But, you know, I think the cool thing about
the way you’ve approached this is that you were able to de-risk, like
you said, starting with the de-risking something that’s just huge.
Rob Conboy
Yeah, and, you know, we sort of joke that taking from the .com-y
world, you know, minimum viable product. We have a minimum viable
plant in that because of our location, we can import the glass powder
from our partners up in Quebec. So we actually aren’t converting
Chittenden County solid waste glass yet
Sam R-G
yet,
Rob Conboy
and that allowed us to again take that interim step with a lower
capital hurdle, to get one line operational and bring in the glass
powder as a feedstock. And we are in the middle of closing the next
step and fully operationalizing the Vermont plant, which will be two
production lines, and the ability to convert glass from Vermont into
our feedstock.
Sam R-G
And that’s in Essex, right?
Rob Conboy
That’s in Essex, that’s correct,
Sam R-G
Nice
Rob Conboy
yeah. Saxon Hill.
Sam R-G
Sweet
Dave Bradbury
Really exciting. I mean, you’ve built demand in the market now. You
can’t get the product out the door fast enough. So that’s a lot of
hard effort, and years have paid off. And it made me think of
something during the COVID years that some of our other companies
actually it… People had a little bit extra time particularly on the
engineering side, and people were looking for new tech, or
substitutes. It sort of was like there was a little pause on the
hustle bustle being at the water cooler or doing that, you know, the
robo meetings, and, you know, I wonder if, in the construction trades,
the home bills, people are putting more thought into what’s next, what
isn’t harmful.
Rob Conboy
That’s a great point, because I think you were asking about the the
adoption, so the advent of all of the sort of virtual meeting. I
think, had COVID not happened, the sort of virtual lunch and learns
that we’re able to now and get folks willing to look at the product
and send them samples, and we’re not in the room together, it was
really an advent of and a byproduct of COVID that may not have
otherwise been there. And it might have been more of a challenge,
too…
Dave Bradbury
Right, right, yeah, right. Because, I mean, your products light weight
enough, you can, you can ship it, versus sending me a bag of rocks,
Rob Conboy
exactly
Dave Bradbury
Thanks for the rocks, Rob. So any particular hurdles to manufacturing
or setting up a plant in Vermont specifically versus some of these
other locations you’ve looked at – or were there advantages, I should
probably be positive.
Rob Conboy
Yeah I mean, everyone I think knows, especially here in Vermont, that
Act 250 is no joke, and I just took it seriously. And that meant well
before we had a site selected, well before we knew where we were going
to be, reaching out to the agency of natural resources and all of the
experts to say, ‘Okay, how do we do this?’ Rather than..
Dave Bradbury
Here’s what I want to do, judge it.
Rob Conboy
Yeah, exactly. So that would be one kind of pro tip is, go in early
and
Sam R-G
Make friends.
Rob Conboy
Make friends and sort of communicate, communicate, communicate, so
they know what you’re trying to do, so no one gets caught by surprise.
And then partnering with folks. You know, we ended up in Essex and
having a fantastic partner in Al Senecal and his team, and Omega and
Allen Brooke Development, who have done this before. You know, they
know the ins and outs of Act 250 so having the right partner at the
table, if it’s your first time, it’s their 100th time. So they know
the pitfalls. They know how to navigate these things. So don’t try to
go it alone. Ask questions, you know, be curious.
Sam R-G
I love that. I think that’s often overlooked, right? As we’re doing
this, ‘This is how we’re going to do it,’ as opposed to, ‘How should
we do this,’ right? Like help me help you.
Rob Conboy
Exactly
Dave Bradbury
Right, right. You don’t have to go at it alone for the first time
Rob Conboy
Yeah and just a huge amount of humility. Like, you know, you don’t
know everything,
Sam R-G
Yeah
Rob Conboy
and it’s okay to ask.
Sam R-G
love that
Dave Bradbury
he’s really looking at you, Sam,
Sam R-G
I’m like, thank God. I want to ask about your team. You know, setting
up manufacturing is one thing, but building the team is a whole nother
thing. How has that gone for you? What does your team look like today?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, I mean, it’s been a journey, you know? It’s very, I think we
have a very common evolution of our team that folks that were with us
early days are not with us now. But we really feel incredibly thankful
for the the team that we built out at the plant, with Thad King as our
our Plant Manager who just came with us with an amazing natural talent
for processes and safety, and then we were able to land an absolutely
fantastic maintenance tech from DynaPower, who understands power
systems. And, you know, we’ve got a big fat electric kiln out there,
Sam R-G
Right – can’t screw around with that.
Rob Conboy
No, so thankful to have Jeffrey. So it’s been a journey,
Sam R-G
yeah,
Rob Conboy
in terms of finding the right people, and we feel really lucky on that
side. And then, you know, we’re a ragtag team on the SG&E side of
sales and marketing and administration and we look to be growing our
team on that front as well.
Sam RG
That’s exciting,
Dave Bradbury
Exciting, so you financed the company. You mentioned family and
friends to start, and I believe you accessed some lending programs
along the way.
Rob Conboy
Oh, yeah,
Dave Bradbury
Yeah. I mean was, was it sort of, it was new, is a new idea, new
product was a sort of, like, ‘Let’s raise a little, do a little. Let’s
raise a little bit more. Do a little bit more.’ Talk about that
journey a bit and any advice for, ‘Here are the trade offs going that
way.’ Like, you know, because at some point you start stacking layers
of either lenders or cap investors on the cap table that make the next
level sometimes more difficult, or
Rob Conboy
One hundred percent. Yeah, and again, you just always have to deal
with the investment environment that you’re handed. You know, timing
is everything. So, you know, I would say, from a timing perspective,
it’s been a challenging time to to raise funds. So you have to do the
the best you can in the climate that you’re given at any given year.
That said, you know, raise more than you think you’re going to need,
if you can..
Dave Bradbury
Do you have a percentage? Is it a third, a quarter, double? What do
you… you’ve been you’ve been through this rodeo a few times?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, looking looking back, I would say it is in that sort of third to
50% more than you think you need… trying to, yeah, weigh all the
advantages and disadvantages of all that. We can spend a whole hour
talking about too much capital and what that also can create
Dave Bradbury
Yeah right – perverse incentives and
Rob Conboy
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And just know that even though you have a road
map for your capital structure and follow-on investments, that if it’s
not your bank, it’s not real. Things change – partners, situations
change, and you have to just always be developing that capital stream.
So you know, one of the capital partners that we’re currently bringing
to bear is a group that I been talking to since 2018. And I had been
giving them constant updates every quarter, every half year since
2018, so when it finally went to their IC it wasn’t like, ‘Who’s this
Glavel company? Where’d they come from?’ It was like, ‘Oh, this is
Rob. He’s been working on this.’
Dave Bradbury
They’ve been executing and,
Rob Conboy
Yeah, and sort of not, not even having to, it wasn’t like, ‘Oh, he’s
meeting all these milestones without sin,’ It was like, ‘No, he was
just always communicating, always giving us updates, so that to their
IC I was a known quantity.’ So that’s a strategy that we also employ
currently, is, you know, the capital that we’re looking to for
expansion are folks that we’ve been talking to again for two, three
years now,
Dave Bradbury
Smart
Rob Conboy
for as we look to go beyond Vermont
Sam R-G
I think that is such a weakness that I see in founders is like, when
they need the money, they come out of the woodwork, right? Where, it’s
like, we want to be updated, right? Like, keep, keep us in the loop.
Like, you know, it doesn’t have to be super frequent, but like, a
quarterly, hey, here’s what we’ve been up to is so helpful, just to
keep you a front of mind, and also beyond just the check for folks
like Dave and I it’s like, we can help, right? Like we can’t help if
we don’t know what’s going on.
Rob Conboy
Right, right
Sam R-G
So I think that’s hugely important,
David Bradbury
you know, on that, that thread, like the pre-seed, seed stage, or, you
know, early cap-ex bill, like they’re not always fully baked. The
factors and risks are still there. So it’s not like it’s an easy quote
transaction to do. It’s really more in the relationship side of things
to your point about, you know, learning, sharing consistently over
time, so that the element of it’s usually the teams that sort of
evaporate early on or that lend itself to really difficult product-
market fit, or, you know, early sort of signals. So I think again,
people want to fund relationships. Later stage will fund transactions.
Rob Conboy
Yeah,
Dave Bradbury
right. Show me the series D term sheet,
Rob Conboy
exactly right.
Dave Bradbury
And, you know, wire it and forget about it, versus engaging and
saying, you know, ‘Who do you need to hire?’
Sam R-G
Yeah,
Dave Bradbury
Or, ‘where’s this particular resource?’
Sam RG
Yeah, I do have to say too, you know, I’m, you know, I’m running in
the circles with, with a bunch of investors, and your investors
absolutely love you, like they are such champions for what you’re
doing and how you’re doing it. And that’s not always the case. And so
good on you. And I think that shows that the effort that you’re
putting in to be upfront with them, tell the story, ask for help when
you need it. It’s really reflective in how they portray you to others
as well,
Rob Conboy
That’s great to hear. And I think they also love what we’re
trying to do. That it’s not – we have all of these things that we’re
doing from the environmental standpoint, from the carbon standpoint,
but we also have a deep understanding and integration of the
connection between social justice and environmental justice, so we
don’t market or lever the fact that we are committed to partnering
with Working Fields to hire formerly incarcerated individuals to break
the cycle of incarceration. We work with Ali Dang, the former city
councilman here in Burlington, to place New Americans. We’ve worked
with Molly Gray and have our first Afghan American out at the plant.
So the makeup of the Glavel employees looks more like, you know,
Oakland, where I’m from, than say, you know, the Northeast Kingdom.
Sam RG
Totally. And you know, that was another question I was gonna ask. And
you mentioned, you’ve mentioned a few of them, but like, I just love
to talk about some resources and groups that have been helpful to you
and other aspects of your business, as well as you’ve grown.
Rob Conboy
So working with Sam Buckley at VEDA, a phenomenal group,
Dave Bradbury
Yay Sam.
Rob Conboy
I mean, Sam is amazing. Working with Janice St. Onge at Flexible
Capital Fund was one of the the first capital in to allow us to have
the working capital that allowed us to land the the loan that we had
on our our current line. Green Mountain Power, a phenomenal partner in
terms of a supplier and understanding the integration of what our
goals are and how that meets with their goals as well, especially
around renewable energy. We hope to be announcing the fact that we
will be 100% renewable next year, thanks to a partnership with Encore
Renewables and Green Mountain Power. So that announcement will be
forthcoming, but that’s an initiative that we have. You know, it’s
hard doing what we do, but being you know, and having the support of
local partners like Barrett Trucking and folks like Al Senecal as a
landlord, you can’t, you can’t put a price tag on the positive impact
that those folks have had on on what we’re doing, but it’s
significant.
Sam RG
I also get the sense that, like, it’s obviously taking longer and it’s
more expensive, but you’re trying to do things right the first time
through, right where, I think a lot of companies just try to get to
revenue as quickly as they can, and then kind of backtrack and like,
‘Oop, now we have to, like, create diversity. Now we have to
establish, you know, this partnership, or now we have to go
renewable.’ And it’s like that ends up being much harder to do if you
don’t do it around the first time, even though it up front, obviously
you’re making more expensive, more time consuming choices.
Rob Conboy
Exactly. Don’t wait. Do it now, yeah, do it from the do it from the
start.
Sam R-G
I love that.
Dave Bradbury
Tell us your perspective on advisory boards, boards of directors,
like, how do you pick who has a voice, officially or in some, you
know, regular capacity?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, that’s a great question. It, right now, you know, I don’t want
to say every day, I wake up worrying about this, but it is front of
mind.
Dave Bradbury
You just did say it on it, and it’s recorded. So
Rob Conboy
We have a recording of me saying it. But the fact that we lack
diversity, you know, it is all white males in that group right now for
Glavel, and that is a struggle. We do have a new board member from a
family office in Chicago and Shai has been really understanding and
helpful to start doing recruitment to get that diversity. So I think
that’s the our biggest challenge is, how do we get, you know, women,
how do we get people of color on our board? How do we get that
diversity that we’re so committed to from the employee side of things?
How do we get that same richness of experience and diversity on our on
our board? So it’s a challenge.
Dave Bradbury
And you know, in terms of boards, advice for others that are forming a
board. Did you sort of pick backgrounds out of your investor base that
could be really helpful, like, how do you, and maybe it changes over
time too,
Rob Conboy
Definitely, yeah, definitely changes.
Dave Bradbury
You know, the starting lineup today might be different
Rob Conboy
Oh, one hundred percent
Dave Bradbury
than the starting lineup in 2017, so just how has that evolution
happened for you? And what, what learnings can you share?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, I would say, you know, early days in the focus on sort of the
capital stack and making sure that we can secure the right capital,
you know, influence the the makeup of the board. And, yeah, as we look
to expand having that experience, either industry experience in in
different addressable markets, who’s going to open doors for us, who
knows the pitfalls out there, who’s savvy in terms of, as we look to
expand, what the structure of that expansion might look like. So a lot
of looking at not just where you are now and your needs, but what are
your needs going to be in the next 2, 3, 4 years to kind of get you to
the next phase.
Dave Bradbury
Yeah. I mean, we’ve started advising folks too that, ‘Hey, you know,
on a board, it’s not a Supreme Court lifetime appointment.’
Rob Conboy
Yeah
Dave Bradbury
And there’s fewer and fewer requirements as a condition of investment
or something that’s still there, but just to know that the company
will change and mature, and that that need of the company, where it
may have been capital or attracting people or solving a technology
challenge, changes over time, and we need to have our group of, you
know, happy warriors at the table reflect the needs of the company.
Rob Conboy
Yeah, exactly
Sam R-G
What’s next for Glavel, what’s on the horizon here?
Rob Conboy
Yeah, so we are in the thick of finalizing a round of investment right
now that will fully operationalize the Vermont plant. And then,
Sam R-G
Woohoo!
Rob Conboy
Oh yeah,
Dave Bradbury
boom, yay.
Rob Conboy
Which is so exciting. And then, you know, the build out of our team.
And then, you know, looking to expand into other markets. You know, we
want to be a positive force for change in the communities that we put
our plants. So we’re being really thoughtful about, you know, where
can we replicate the commitment around renewable energy, where are the
markets that are demanding and prioritizing low embodied carbon
building materials,
Sam R-G
Yep
Rob Conboy
because we want to be a solution for them. At the end of the day, you
know, we don’t necessarily see ourselves as an aggregate company. We
see ourselves as a solutions company. So right now, we’re offering a
product that, you know, helps people hit their goals, if they’re, you
know, just starting their journey on on low embodied carbon building
materials. We know that’s going to become more and more sought after,
thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act, so about $8 billion in
incentives for folks to use low embodied carbon building materials.
And you know, groups like the Rocky Mountain Institute in Colorado and
Skanska and Microsoft formed a building transparency platform that
allows practitioners, builders, architects, engineers, to clearly see
what the embodied carbon is and various materials to help them make
choices. So we, we know we’re at the forefront. It’s like
Sam R-G
Good timing!
Rob Conboy
Yeah, we’re, you know, we’re doing Seventh Gen, free and clear
detergent before anybody had thought that they needed free and clear
detergent kind of thing, totally.
Sam R-G
Well, that’s going to be a fun kind of puzzle to figure out where to
go next and what relationships to build there.
Rob Conboy
Yeah
Sam R-G
And, you know, it’s a lot as you’re still building, you know, out your
Vermont operation, but that’s, I’m excited to see where you go next.
Dave Bradbury
Really exciting. Thanks for coming by today, Rob and chatting with me
and Sam
Rob Conboy
Thanks for having me. This has been wonderful.
Sam R-G
But
Dave Bradbury
Oh, we forgot.
Sam R-G
Oh, Dave.
Dave Bradbury
Woah
Sam R-G
I’m like, ‘Hello!’
Dave Bradbury
Oh, wow, I was gonna cut him right off.
Sam R-G
Oh, my God, I’m like, I was starting to panic. My blood pressure
started to rise here,
Dave Bradbury
you know, when we tape before lunch. Sometimes the sugar levels get
too low
Rob Conboy
It happens
Sam R-G
So sorry about him, Rob
Dave Bradbury
You get a magic wand question. Okay, so it’s magic wand time. Your
superpowers. If you could do one thing in Vermont, what would you
change?
Rob Conboy
Wow, that’s a really good one. One thing in Vermont,
Dave Bradbury
superpowers.
Rob Conboy
Wow
Sam RG
Red tape doesn’t exist. Reality also doesn’t exist.
David Bradbury
More powder days. It could be population change I can’t believe we
stumped them. This is awesome.
Rob Conboy
You di-, well I’m trying
Dave Bradbury
Tough to choose, right?
Sam R-G
He put his guard down. He thought he was done, you know
Rob Conboy
Yeah
David Bradbury
We’ll do this more regularly. Yeah, totally..
Rob Conboy
I know this is fantastic. It’s… wow this is going to get deep. I
feel like in Vermont, we really do have two states, right? We’ve got
this veneer of progressive Bernie Sanders, hippie dippie, you know,
world and universe that people think of Vermont. But there’s this
whole other beautiful Vermont of hard-working individuals that you
know might not have the same political stripe as you. And the distance
between those views is so much shorter than we realize. So I think if
I had a magic wand, I would wave it so that the progressive who might
be against certain development, say, can see that they are actually in
line with the developer that wants to, you know, solve some problems
with building more buildings and that sort of thing. So if I had a
magic wand, it would be the ability to see that our views are not as
divergent as we are sometimes led to believe, but rather we are on the
same page in so many ways.
Sam R-G
Wow.
Dave Bradbury
Here here.
Sam R-G
It was worth the wait.
Dave Bradbury
Yeah that was pretty good
Sam R-G
Worth the wait to hear that one
Dave Bradbury
Let’s get the algorithms out of it, right
Rob Conboy
Exactly, put down your phone, talk to your neighbor, realize that
you’re not that different.
Dave Bradbury
Thank you.
Sam R-G
Love that, Rob, that’s awesome
Dave Bradbury
This has been Start Here, a podcast sharing the stories of active,
aspiring, accidental entrepreneurs. The series is supported by the
Vermont Technology Council and Consolidated Communications. All right,
let’s get back to work.
