Katie Babic / Katie Babic Designs
Start Here Podcast | Episode #77 | 8/3/2023
Katie Babic, a self-taught artist from Barre, VT, transitioned from being a school counselor to a tree ring artist in 2020. After creating hand-carved gifts for local students, Babic rediscovered her passion for art and repurposed her dining room into a personal office. Now, Katie Babic Designs sells one-of-a-kind Vermont prints to a variety of local institutions and clients throughout the United States. In this episode, Katie describes the creative process of “pulling,” how she’s balanced motherhood and entrepreneurship, and the importance of being a good steward of the land.
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Episode Transcription:
KATIE BABIC
There’s never a right time. There’s never the best start. You’re not always going to have everything planned out as you want, but if you have a product that you believe in wholeheartedly and you think that the world needs to have a piece of that, then that’s your launching pad. That’s where the heart of your business is. Everything else will fall into place if you believe in the organic process. The worst thing you’re going to hear is “no,” and you just have to keep going and believing in it.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
From the Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies, it’s Start Here, a podcast sharing the stories of active, aspiring, and accidental entrepreneurs. Today we sit down with Katie Babic, to learn how she showcases nature’s hidden beauty through a process called “pulling.” Intrigued? So are we. Welcome. This is Sam Roach-Gerber –
DAVE BRADBURY
And Dave Bradbury.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Recording from the Consolidated Communications Technology Hub in downtown Burlington, VT.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Hi, Katie.
KATIE BABIC
Hello.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Welcome to VCET for the very first time.
KATIE BABIC
Thank you.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
I feel like I’ve known you forever, but I met you then minutes ago.
DAVE BRADBURY
You two are jiving, and that’s kind of nice.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
I feel like she has that effect on people, though.
DAVE BRADBURY
Yes, right. There’s like a warmth and aura, and sort of fun-ness.
KATIE BABIC
Oh, you guys are great. I’ll stay here any day.
DAVE BRADBURY
Butter her up! I’ll hit you up for a donation later.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
We try to be sweet sometimes. All right, Katie, so let’s talk about your craft. I teased our audience a little bit. What is “pulling?” This was a new term for me.
KATIE BABIC
So as a printmaker, it’s the process of pulling the paper off whatever medium you’re using. So for my artwork, I use tree rings and cookies. So after you’ve done a series of pressing, so with my hands – some people use brayers or different tools – but I really like to connect with the wood. So I hand press, and then the act of pulling the paper off the cookie is where the term pulling comes from.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
That gives me so much anxiety. Like, one shot?
KATIE BABIC
Yeah.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
And you probably use really nice paper.
KATIE BABIC
It’s nice, yeah.
DAVE BRADBURY
It’s the real deal. I mean, the idea you’re like fingerprinting these massive trees that are hundreds of years old. Also, a “cookie” is sort of like a cross-cut section. I didn’t know that, Sam. I got hungry when heard that term.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
I have deep woods knowledge, so I’m in my sweet spot right now.
DAVE BRADBURY
“Deep woods knowledge!” Growing up out in the woods? Yeah, I got it.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Yeah, exactly.
DAVE BRADBURY
Have you always been an artist, or was this a side hustle? What was your career to this point like?
KATIE BABIC
I’ve always been a maker. I never identified as an artist, but I come from a family of extremely talented makers as well. And prior to this, I was a school counselor. I was almost at 20 years of being an educator. I totally did pivot during the pandemic, like many, when I noticed that my own three kids were suffering in their own ways and just needed my presence. Because I think at the end of the day we were all just fried, and it was kind of like, “Oh, what do I have left?”
And I think the tipping point for me was I was working out of our bedroom, and we have these windows that look into our backyard. And there’s this pond, and my 2-year-old at the time decided she was going to go out and feed the ducks. So I’m watching her as I’m counseling a kid who’s in crisis, and she’s got a loaf of bread under her arm. And we had just had this fence – we recently moved in – but we just had this fence by Middlebury put in, and the door was put on reversed so she had a little foothold to step onto and reach over.
And it was like, “Okay, I’m just going to continue to have eyes on.” And everything was fine, she didn’t go in water. She threw a loaf of bread to the duck, which was great. But just that moment of like, “What am I doing? Right now, I just need to pause and prioritize.” So that was the moment for me where I was like, “Okay, I need to just follow my gut here and be with my kids during this time.”
SAM ROACH-GERBER
I mean, what a scary moment, but sometimes you need that kick in the ass, right? To make it happen. So at this point, had you been printing kind of on the side for fun? Or was there sort of a lull between finishing your career, taking some time with your kids, and then saying, “I have an itch to do something different?”
KATIE BABIC
So no, I was not printing. I’m self-taught. At the end of that school year the kids didn’t have graduation, and that was a big deal. So I did a linoleum cut carving of the bell. Every kid was able to go and ring the bell at school as kind of their passage, and so I hand-carved these cards for all of the graduates with the year. That process of just carving into this material was like, “Oh my gosh,” it was cathartic. It was like, wow, I really enjoy this. But after I had resigned, I said, “I really just need to give myself a year.” Because I don’t know how to sit. I don’t know how to not have something going on.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Did people in your life say, “Katie, just chill for a bit?” Or did you know that you had to take that time?
KATIE BABIC
No, no one said that to me. I just knew. I felt like I was making a big decision on leaving a career that I had invested a lot of time and energy in, and really received a lot from as far as the energy. So yeah, it was just one of those things where it was like, I just need to pause and just be a mom. You know, I think as a child, that’s all you ever dreamt of was like, “Oh, I can’t wait to someday be a mom.” And then it’s here, and before you know it it’s flashing before your eyes.
And it’s kind of like, “Wow, wait a minute, I have a kid who’s going to be graduating from elementary school next year.” So that’s where I was like, “I need to give myself a year.” And I almost got there. I was really proud of myself. I get to seven months, and in that time I was doing a lot of creative things, but it was mostly landscape design. I love building with rocks.
DAVE BRADBURY
We’ll go into your house. Your yard, there’s so much going on there. It’s beautiful.
KATIE BABIC
There is a lot going on.
DAVE BRADBURY
I didn’t know I could feed the ducks, though. I’m coming back.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Yeah, you’ve got to go back to do that.
KATIE BABIC
Bring your fishing pole and do a little fly fishing. But yeah, so I took a step back and really just enjoyed my land and my kids. It was magical. Then later in the fall, one of our good family members had passed, and so we were doing a celebration of life out at my husband’s family camp in Chelsea. It’s one of those off-the-grid cabins, no running water, no electricity, a beautiful spot. And situated right next to this old log cabin with horsehair in between each log is this dead pine? I actually was just looking at a picture of it the other night.
And so we’re sending off these lanterns that we had written messages on, and one of the lanterns, of course, gets stuck in the tree. And we’re all just like, some of us are blowing, like that’s going to make a difference. But we’re like, “Oh my gosh, is this the moment? Like the final? Here we go.” And everything was fine, it went out.
DAVE BRADBURY
Almost turned into a Viking send-off!
KATIE BABIC
Totally, yes. It was like, oh my gosh, here we go. And so after that, after everything kind of blew off, it was really beautiful and touching just to hear everybody’s stories, their attachment to this tree, and just the history of it alone to this family. And so my husband and I were like, okay, we need to do something. And at that point we had some trees milled ourselves, and we were making cutting boards for fun and giving them away as gifts. And so my husband was, “I’m going to take a cross section, and we’ll make some cutting boards and we’ll give one to all of the siblings.” And I was like, “Brilliant, that sounds awesome.”
So he did. He went back the next day and he helped take down the tree. So it’s down, we’re safe now. He brought it home and he did a first cut, and it was so pungent on the inside. I was like, “You can’t make a cutting board with this. You’re going to cut right through it.”
So we started brainstorming, and he was like, “Well, what if we do a print?” And at that point he was researching Bryan Nash Gill, and just the printing off of tree rings. And I was like, “Well, you’ve already cut into it. Let’s take it a step further.” And so I created a Vermont stencil and was like, “I’m just going to take the geographical location of the heartwood” – which is the very core of the tree – “and that’s going to be where camp is. We’re going to put this stencil so that’s the heart of.”
And so we did it. And that was like in November – end of October, start of November. I ended up making one for all of his aunts and uncles. And Christmas Day our whole family went and we had delivered them. That was kind of the birth of Katie Babic Designs, which even at that point, I still wasn’t even thinking. Like, I’m a school counselor at heart. I like to help and I like to do, but the entrepreneurial piece, I had no idea.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
So first of all, did it take you a while to get the hang of it? How many did you have to throw away when you’re making ones for the aunts and uncle?
KATIE BABIC
Oh gosh. That’s a great question.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Let’s talk about the success rate here.
KATIE BABIC
I don’t feel like there was a whole lot. And I think it was just because I didn’t have any expectations. I am just a doer, so I’m not often thinking, I’m more like feeling and connecting. And so I don’t think we threw away a lot.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Love it. And so you said that was sort of like November, and then did you just start making more? Did friends of family members request them? How did it start to kind of bubble up?
KATIE BABIC
So we did have family members asking, “Oh, can we get one for our kid?” And so there was that. I should have said, like, I also made one for all of my neighbors and then some of my girlfriends. It was one girlfriend in particular who was like, “Where are you selling these? I just bought something similar for my husband for the holidays, and I would have probably picked this if it had been an option.” I’m like, you’re funny. I’ll just make you one. And that’s kind of like who I am. I love to give. I love to just share in anything that I’ve created.
And she was like, “No, seriously. You have something here. You should pursue it.” And I was like, “What does that even mean? I have no idea.” And so I just continued to make, because it felt so good to just give and see people’s reactions upon receiving it. And then finally my husband was like, “All right, so you’re at a point where you know you’re producing a lot, and you don’t have a job anymore.”
DAVE BRADBURY
The dining room is chaos! Your dining room was your studio and your display room.
KATIE BABIC
So I had taken over the dining room. And he was like, “Why don’t you make something of this?” And so that’s kind of the kick-off of, okay, I’m just going to do. I didn’t do any research, didn’t look at any market analysis. I was just like, “All right, sure.”
So I put something out on Instagram per a suggestion of this girlfriend who lived up the road who was like, “You need to do something.” And that was it. I was like, who would be interested? And I think like within the first month I had 60-some-odd orders.
DAVE BRADBURY
How did Hotel Vermont come across? Because your work is, I mean, it’s part of who they are. They love celebrating Vermont products and artists. I mean, you’re up there with Duncan Johnson and some of these other amazing artists, or some major products and all the rest. Tell us a little bit about how that relationship came about.
KATIE BABIC
Duncan, just as a side note, is also from Barre. I grew up in Barre.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Something in the water down there!
KATIE BABIC
I was thinking the same thing. I was like, wow, he’s from Barre, too, awesome. Barre’s a great place, so I just needed to give my little plug for Barre. Hotel Vermont came across – my husband and I were coming up on our anniversary, and we’re horrible at pausing and celebrating. But I was like, no, we’re going to do this, and if we’re going to do it, we’re going to do it right. So I scheduled a date at the Comedy Hour.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
The Vermont Comedy Club.
KATIE BABIC
Yes. It was fabulous. We had cocktails before, then we went in and realized that there was a bar there too. And I was like, all right, giddy up, let’s keep it going. This is going to be a fun night. And so we went to the Comedy Hour, and I was like, “No, we’re going to stay up here.” So we booked a night at Hotel Vermont, and got into the rooms. I had never been there before. I was hit with a migraine, so I spent most of the evening in the bathroom. Not pleasant! And no, I wasn’t hungover or anything. It wasn’t the alcohol.
DAVE BRADBURY
You just laughed too much at the comedy club!
KATIE BABIC
I legit had a migraine! But I remember being there and being like, wow, this is a really prestigious, eco-centered place to restore yourselves, but where’s the artwork? I think there was like this bird decal randomly positioned somewhere. I was like, I don’t get this.
DAVE BRADBURY
A Game of Thrones sort of mantelpiece, right?
KATIE BABIC
Yeah. And so, you know, I just took it for what it was and was like, okay. And the next day I went home and I was like, oh, wait a minute. I have something that would tie in quite beautifully. It was kind of that moment where it was like, I’m just going to do. Like kicking out of this gate, the only thing I might hear is no, and what’s wrong with no? Was my mentality. Like, I can take no, that’s fine.
So I sent the general manager an email. I think that’s how it started. And I was like, “I was just recently there. We stayed the night. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a great night, but I did come to the conclusion that I think I have something that would tie really beautifully with your aesthetics.” And Hans is the most incredible guy ever.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
We love him.
KATIE BABIC
He’s amazing. He makes you feel like you’re family.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
100%.
KATIE BABIC
So anyways, I’m sure him getting this email, he’s like, yep. And as a matter of fact, he did say, “Do how many of these I’ve received over the past ten years?” And I was like, I didn’t think about it. Of course, why would I?
DAVE BRADBURY
The naivete of fearlessness, I love it.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Exactly. If you had thought about that, you wouldn’t have sent the email. That’s a lesson for all of us.
KATIE BABIC
Well, no, I think, if I wanted to try on the head of being an entrepreneur, I’m not an entrepreneur who is deep in thought. I’m more like, this is what I’m feeling and I’m going. So anyway, I sent him the email and he responded. He was like, “That’s great. Send me your website and let us know more about yourself.” And so I was like, oh man, I’ve got to put together a website. Oh my God!
So you know, I had some things, I had some photos that I put together, and created my kind of blurb about me. And I didn’t hear anything for a couple of days. So that’s when I was like, man, I really think this – like when you believe in something – and for me, it’s when my heart is like, yes, this is right, this feels right, it’s hard for me to not perseverate on that. And so I was coming up here for an appointment anyway, so I was like, “I’m just going to bring prints up and I’ll drop them off.” And I did it. I brought up a variety of prints and sizes, and got a call that afternoon. And I was like, “Okay, here we go.”
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Brave!
DAVE BRADBURY
Will you start selling for us? I love it.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Oh, my God. That’s so great. So it just brought to mind one of the biggest things I see, which is entrepreneurs that are afraid to start. They want everything to be perfect before they start their business. Not your style, which I love. You just kind of started and did it. Would you say that’s a piece of your advice for other artists starting their own business? Because I think that’s a little bit of a harder thing. Because when you’re an artist, it’s your passion. There’s something so much more to it that it can be really scary.
KATIE BABIC
Well, I think the encouragement of the people that were surrounding me is certainly something that has helped me just continue to push through. But yeah, I would say for an entrepreneur, there’s never a right time. There’s never the best start. You’re not always going to have everything planned out as you want, but if you have a product that you believe in wholeheartedly and you think that the world needs to have a piece of that, then that’s your launching pad. That’s where the heart of your business is, and you don’t need to think beyond that. Everything else will fall into place if you believe in the organic process and go for it. The worst thing you’re going to hear is “no,” and if that’s the case, when one door closes and another one’s going to open. You’ve just got to keep going and believing in it.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Yeah, I love.
DAVE BRADBURY
So you donate money, or $10, from each sale or purchase on the website to –
KATIE BABIC
10%! Come on, 10%.
DAVE BRADBURY
There’s a typo that you might –
KATIE BABIC
Yeah, that’s a big typo.
DAVE BRADBURY
I’m sorry. Why is that important to you, and what sort of causes are you supporting?
KATIE BABIC
Oh, gosh, yes, I’ve got goosebumps. So I guess throughout this whole process, it’s kind of like the onion, and I’ve been pulling back these layers. Growing up in Vermont, nature was my playground and still is. That’s what I love about here, that this outdoor playground that we’re exposed to is always inspiring. Every corner you turn you’re like, “Oh, look at that.”
And so, growing up as a child, running up Camel’s Hump or Spruce, being engaged in the trees and recognizing them, for someone who has a focus on detail, I’ve always been drawn to the trees because I feel like there’s so much detail. But I’ve never thought of the inside of a tree as the historical mapping of our landscape. So what was the question? Where’s the passion?
SAM ROACH-GERBER
She’s off in the trees. We’re going to bring her back into the room.
KATIE BABIC
I’m totally off into the trees.
DAVE BRADBURY
I’m about ready to go climb a tree too, or swing in one.
KATIE BABIC
Through my process, I’ve always wanted to continue to support the landscape that I’ve been so blessed to have as a child, and even now as an adult raising my kids. But through my process, I learned of the emerald ash borer. My first cookie that I used – and then subsequently I took another cross section of this felled tree – was investigated by them, emerald ash borer, and is what led it to its fall.
But I didn’t know about the emerald ash borer until I was in St. Johnsbury and I was framing some prints. A gentleman came into the frame gallery and was like, “Wow, is that an ash cookie?” And I was like, “It is. How do you know?” He was a logger himself. He’s like, “That’s some historical preservation right there.” And I was like, “Yeah, you’re absolutely right.”
So he started talking to me about the emerald ash borer, and how it’s wreaking havoc on the species itself. It was in that moment that my heart latched on to this feeling of, this is my purpose. This is part of what I’m doing here, having this opportunity to preserve, but also preserve in the longer, more forestry aspect of our country. I was like, “I’m going to be the Lorax, the female version of The Lorax, damn it.”
DAVE BRADBURY
I love it.
KATIE BABIC
And I was like, I need to start exposing more about the ash and the emerald ash borer. And so I thought it, wouldn’t be really cool to take my education background, everything that’s brought me to where I am this moment, and create this amphitheater type gallery of cross sections of ash trees across Vermont, showcasing the geographical locations, and then have this stewardship program where the kids learn about the different stages or what the emerald ash borer looks like. Because if you see it, you’re kind of like, that is a beautiful beetle, until you realize what it’s doing and where it came from. That’s more than we need to get into right now. I just wanted to feed the souls of our youth, because if we’re not taking the time to stop and look at our landscape, and really appreciate it for all that it provides for us, then 50 or 60 years from now what does that look like if we’re not?
So that was a big part of me launching a need to look beyond Katie Babic Designs and think, “How can I impact? What can I do?” So I started making donations here and there for different forestry programs and reforestation. So that’s where my happy place is, knowing that I’m giving back.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Yeah, that’s so cool. Do you feel like it changed the way you looked at your business? You said it felt like all of a sudden you had this purpose. Do you think it changed the way you looked at things?
KATIE BABIC
I think there have been a number of moments in the past just about three years, that the purpose has kind of shifted, or it’s evolved or it’s blossomed. I think having the opportunity to give back is what fulfills a big part of my soul.
[ad break]
DAVE BRADBURY
It’s really remarkable, the connection people have with trees and forests as part of their lives. Like you said, growing up or special events, people get married under them, or you bury somebody near a tree. What’s the hook of humans to a big tree?
KATIE BABIC
I think they’re grounding for us. There’s a sense of calm. You know this gentle giant above us has provided shade, or the swing. I think that’s one of my favorite aspects, is hearing those stories from my clients of what the tree has meant. I’m still waiting for Emily to share about the pine trees, you know?
DAVE BRADBURY
That’s still a hot topic in my house.
KATIE BABIC
But listening to Vermonters share with me about what the three that is now in front of me has represented for them, it almost brings me to tears. That’s that authentic Vermont that I just love. So hearing the stories – and I don’t know if most people know my story or my connection with the stump that I pull off currently and hope to always – so this is the second stump from the felled ash tree that I’ve used.
And when I was doing the Hotel Vermont project, I was very thoughtful in each print. I wanted to make sure that if I was there with my family and another family, that the print in my room, because they’re all one-of-a-kind, looks different than the print right next door, down the hall, or a floor up.
So I was constantly just re-shifting the stump and turning it around. I was probably halfway through printing 125 prints, and I pulled it off and I looked at it and I was like, “Oh my gosh, there’s an Angel in the middle of my stump.”
DAVE BRADBURY
Stop it. Really?
KATIE BABIC
No, I’ll go show you after on the wall.
DAVE BRADBURY
No, I’m not calling you a liar!
KATIE BABIC
It felt like you were!
DAVE BRADBURY
That was more doubt and wonder than accusation, or “You lie!”
SAM ROACH-GERBER
You’re supposed to say, “No way!”
KATIE BABIC
And I often don’t share this with people, because I want them to find it in their own time. I want them to be able to see it and be like, “Oh my gosh, does she know this?”
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Have their own discovery moment.
KATIE BABIC
Yeah, totally. But my personal connection is with the stump, and it’s crazy, but in high school my sister was struck by lightning. And the further detail on this stump is the fact that, yes, there is this angel source. If you think about it, it’s rot – it’s the deterioration of the heartwood of this tree – and it formed an Angel. And up in the corner – I’m not even joking you, so don’t doubt this –
DAVE BRADBURY
There’s no way I’m challenging this story about your sister.
KATIE BABIC
Good call! There’s a lightning bolt, it’s just formed as a crack directed at the angel. And it was this moment where, like, I certainly had a moment. It brought me to my knees. And I was just like, “Oh my gosh, she’s here with me.” Like this is the sign that this is exactly where I need to be. This is what I have to be doing. I’m like the Lorax. She is riding this journey with me.
And you know, I’ve always believed – she’s still a presence, but you never get those signs. And that was my sign, and it was just the most magical moment for me, that I was so deeply touched and affirmed that, oaky –
SAM ROACH-GERBER
You’re on the right.
KATIE BABIC
I’m on the right path. Like, that hard decision to leave my career and start this was spot on.
DAVE BRADBURY
Wow.
KATIE BABIC
That was really amazing.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
I love those moments. They’re so important. I think I’m a big believer in signs, serendipity, and all that good stuff.
DAVE BRADBURY
So you have this business that is blossoming, but yet you’re the creator as well. How do you apportion your time between building and making, and then that business stuff, like the overhead of finances, websites, trade shows, and customer calls? What have you learned from that? How are you managing that aspect? Because I think that would be interesting.
KATIE BABIC
Well, I think “manage” is probably a word that –
DAVE BRADBURY
“Balance?”
KATIE BABIC
Yeah, no, I think going back to the question earlier too, about what do you want to share with the entrepreneurs who are in the same kind of spot of being paralyzed It’s probably because they know they’ve taken those entrepreneurial classes, they’ve taken those business classes, where I hadn’t. And so I often think that, wow, I really did put the cart before the horse quite a bit.
But again, I believe in the process and I believe that everything kind of works itself out, probably to a fault. That’s one of my beliefs. But it’s been really tricky. I’ve never really enjoyed the technology aspect. Even as a school counselor I was like, “Emails? Oh, gosh, let’s just talk.” And so having a presence on technology platforms has been really hard. My learning curve, I feel like if I could compare it to something, it’s like hiking at up Everest. The trajectory has just been straight up, between learning about bookkeeping or marketing, or even just expanding the product line.
So there are all these different facets that stepping into this wasn’t in my repertoire. I had no idea. I mean, as a consumer myself I’m pretty dialed in, but to know the behind the scenes of all that goes into your branding and just keeping things afloat, it’s pretty overwhelming. It’s heavy at times. I definitely feel like I have to keep coming back to the reason why I started this, which is my kids. Having a home office in the dining room, where it’s centrally located, I’m constantly being drawn back to it. You’ve got to understand that making is a cathartic feeling where you want to be. It’s like your happy place. Not to say that being with my kids isn’t, either, but when you’re constantly being pulled and trying to remind yourself, I got into this business so I had more time with my kids, and right now it’s feeling a bit like the balance isn’t in favor of my kids. I have had some of those moments when I’ve been like, I need to totally step back, because I’m so invested right now into this job that my kids are taking a back seat. There’s definitely a balance.
DAVE BRADBURY
It’s a tug, yeah.
KATIE BABIC
It is a tug.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Do you feel like you’re okay with that? Is that still the goal? Because obviously, Dave and I are very much in the business of scaling. We want to scale, hire, and grow. But that’s not right for everyone, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with just having a sustainable business that is manageable. Have you had a hard time with that? Aside from jus spending more with your kids, just the pull of wanting to grow a bigger business? Or do you feel pretty happy with where it’s at?
KATIE BABIC
I have grown a business very quickly, and I’ve scaled product lines, that when I stop and think about it, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve done all of this in a short period of time and all by myself. There is no one else.” And there is that overarching fear for, can I really afford to pay a bookkeeper? I can’t afford to have someone build my website, so I’m literally from scratch teaching myself all these different platforms.
I don’t think fear is in my vocabulary, because just I’m a doer. I know that when it gets to that point, I’m going to figure it out. Not to say that some things won’t fall to the side – hopefully, they won’t – but yeah, it’s really hard. But I do want to continue to scale. I do have some big visions of taking this to the next level, and I think organically it will happen. My kids are still young. Instead of expanding out, out, out with more product lines, really allow what I’ve crated to establish those roots, and solidify what I’m trying to do and give back to.
DAVE BRADBURY
Just look at the rings on the tree.
KATIE BABIC
Oh my gosh.
DAVE BRADBURY
You can see the big growth years, and there are a lot of narrow years too.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Nice, Dave.
DAVE BRADBURY
You find out what’s right – yeah, see, I wove it right back.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
I have a question while we’re talking about scaling. What’s your view on competition? How do you see it?
KATIE BABIC
I don’t feel the weight of any competition. I mean, I know that there are other tree ring artists out there. I’ve had a number reach out to me, and I love to collaborate. I love to support others in making this. If that’s their passion, then I think that’s amazing. There’s not enough of us in this world to say, I’m going to just monopolize the tree ring world. Like, Eric Linton’s fabulous work out west, his stuff is absolutely gorgeous. I just got actually an Instagram from this girl out in California who was like, “What do you do? What do you use?” I’m like, here you go. This is the paper I use. This is the ink I don’t hide behind the screen when I’m burning stuff, I put it out there.
Because it’s not about competition, it’s about collaboration and inspiring other people to continue to make beautiful things. I think as the evolution of this business kind of unfolds, we’re at this time in our lives where technology is such a presence, and we also have this yearning of being connected with the outside. I also see tree ring art as this way of reminding ourselves, like, I have this cookie at my house that I’m looking at, and it’s the reminder to pause, get outside, and enjoy the beautiful landscape that’s around us. So I don’t feel the competition yet. And if I do, that’s good, that means that there’s been inspiration.
DAVE BRADBURY
That’s really cool. I’m really struck by the sort of oral history that comes out when you talk with people about the cookie, or the tree they’re asking to do something. Do you capture those tales? Do you record them somehow?
KATIE BABIC
I don’t record them with an actual recorder, but I do journal them on my Instagram post. I’ve shared a few really heartfelt – there was one, I call it the swinging tree. And it’s so funny, because Karen, who is the owner, I feel like our souls are connected through this experience.
So I do capture the stories in the essence of it. I do want to start my “stump stories,” and whether that’s a blog or it’s on Instagram, it’s like all these other things that you’re trying to figure out. But I definitely want to capture the stories of the local people who really honor the landscape.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
So compelling.
DAVE BRADBURY
The swinging tree is great. That hooked us. Emily and I purchased one of Katie’s early ones. What is it, like 40” in diameter. DAVE BRADBURY
It’s a pretty big piece, right?
KATIE BABIC
Yeah, it was bigger than 40”.
DAVE BRADBURY
We didn’t have a wall big enough, but we put it there anyway, and it looks awesome. All the Maple tops over time you can see, really cool.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
What is your favorite piece you’ve ever made? Is it the first one, the family one?
KATIE BABIC
Oh gosh, that’s a really difficult question, because I feel like with every new one that I print off of, I love it. I find myself attaching to it. But I think my stump that I do all of my stately prints off, that is just resonating my sister, is my favorite stump hands down.
DAVE BRADBURY
Sam tried to trick you into that one. Just say, “The next one I do.” God, Sam. Well, fortunately, as I think back through the years, there are other artists and makers that have made business – Sabra Field, and Duncan Johnson. Who’s that Kimble fella, the cows and stuff?
KATIE BABIC
Woody? Woody Jackson?
DAVE BRADBURY
Woody Jackson, not Kimble. You know, you can scale it up or down, what feels right for you and your team as you do all this. You must drive a pickup truck.
KATIE BABIC
Oh my gosh, I so badly want one. No, I don’t. I would throw them right in the back of my Volvo.
DAVE BRADBURY
I didn’t see that coming.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Yeah, we’ve got to get you a pickup truck.
DAVE BRADBURY
Sponsor, there you go. Sam, we’re getting close to wrap-up time here.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
All right. Well before we get there – I’ll leave that one to you, Dave – but just what’s next? You alluded to some scaling opportunities. Do you have a project on the horizon you’re excited about or a new product line? What’s keeping you excited?
KATIE BABIC
The challenge, always feeling challenged, keeps me really excited and engaged. I look to continue to wholesale. I’m looking for some vetted businesses that their values align with mine. I’m looking to expand with wholesalers, as well as kind of the hospitality market. I really love the Hotel Vermont project. I love feeling like I’m part of a community that, again, the values piece, values locally sourced handmade products that speak to Vermont.
I think Vermont is kind of my home base right now, but the vision is to expand. At this point, I think I’ve served 18 other states in our country, and so my goal is to have all the states printed maybe within the next three years.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Amazing.
DAVE BRADBURY
That’s so cool. Thank you so much for coming in and spending time with us.
KATIE BABIC
Thank you, guys.
DAVE BRADBURY
I told you it was going to be awesome, Sam.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Magic wand, Dave, don’t forget!
DAVE BRADBURY
No, I’m not there. I’m not going to say Sam gave me an [00:43:04 honor roll], but thank you. Magic wand time, we ask everybody this at the end of an interview. If you had a superpower – well, obviously you have superpowers – if you have greater superpowers, if there’s one thing you could change about Vermont, what would it be?
KATIE BABIC
I think the first thing that came to my mind is revolutionizing the education system and making sure a high school graduation requirement is four semesters of stewardship to the land.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Wow, yes.
DAVE BRADBURY
Baller.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Love that answer.
KATIE BABIC
Drop the mic? I’ll just drop it now?
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Yes, 100%, and let’s get rid of the emerald ash bores.
KATIE BABIC
Yes, absolutely. Let’s save that for another podcast.
DAVE BRADBURY
Let’s leave that for the next one.
SAM ROACH-GERBER
Thank you, Katie.
DAVE BRADBURY
Thank you, Katie.
KATIE BABIC
Thank you, guys. This was great.
DAVE BRADBURY
This has Start Here, a podcast sharing stories of active, aspiring, and accidental entrepreneurs. The series is supported by the Vermont Technology Council and Consolidated Communications. Let’s go play in the woods, Sam.
