Alejandro Bergad / Sunsoil

Start Here Podcast | Episode #92 | 07/11/24

One thing most businesses don’t think to do is intentionally lower their price. For Alejandro Bergad of Sunsoil, it was a no-brainer. Join us for this month’s episode of Start Here, where Alejandro discusses the CBD industry, his experiences with the compound, and his combination of hard work and luck that led to Sunsoil. With a commitment to affordability and keeping a grassroots core, Sunsoil has made a name for itself in the CBD industry for never sacrificing its quality while maintaining an affordable price.

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TRANSCRIPTION

 

Alejandro Bergad
It got personal, like I was meeting with people, I mean, people that had terminally ill diseases, people that weren’t mixing well with other medications. And for me to say that I knew market timing was correct or anything like that would be an overstatement, but I went for it, and I think that we might have a long history as a company.

Sam Roach Gerber
from Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies, it’s Start Here, a podcast sharing the stories of active, aspiring, and accidental entrepreneurs. Today we sit down with Alejandro Bergad, co founder of Sunsoil, the Vermont company on a mission to create affordable access to the best CBD products out there. Welcome. This is Sam Roach Gerber,

David Bradbury
And Dave Bradbury,

SRG
recording from the Consolidated Communications Technology hub in downtown Burlington, Vermont. Alejandro, hello,

AB
Hello. Thank you for having me.

SRG
I can’t believe we’ve never met before!

AB
I don’t get out much these days

SRG
You don’t get out much. Dave just tries to keep me away from cool people.

DB
I just told you that he was one of the original members here at the downtown coworking space.

SRG
I had no idea

DB
Like nine years ago maybe,

SRG
No idea

DB
ten years ago. It was before you started this company. What were we working on back then?

AB
That was Mydwello. Yeah it was 2013 or

DB
13

SRG
Mydwello. Tell us a titch about that.

AB
Oh, it was, you know, catchphrase was a home for your home. It was a place to record all your capital improvements and the intangibles, bringing you know, further information to light, further transparency to a home, which could help aid in the selling process and and and carry a home’s history forward, which is like the number one investment most Americans make with such little information.

SRG
I bought my house from people who had owned it for 40 years. And like, literally had, we had the dishwasher manual from 1964, like they were so organized. They had everything that, every key that like so and that’s not me, so sign me up. We’ll bring it back.

AB
YEah

DB
So badly want that

SRG
We’ll come full circle.

AB
Yeah, no, I do too. I just don’t want to raise capital ever again.

DB
Alright well we’ll get to that in a little bit here, for sure.

SRG
So it sounds like, well, obviously, Sunsoil is not your first entrepreneurial endeavor. Is that sort of a theme throughout your life, or was Mydwello your first go?

AB
No, I’ve been taking stabs at it since, you know, past college, and you know, whether it was like a landscaping business or something, I like to to work for myself, and I’ve pretty much done exclusively that most of my life. And I’ve been fortunate enough to have, like, I don’t want to call them successes, but like, sideways, like, things that kept me going, you know, I wouldn’t say I was gainfully employed with any of these other endeavors.

DB
You were sustainably employed

AB
But like, yeah, like, you know, like, a few base hits and a few strikeouts and, you know, I really, you know, feel like a lot of a lot of things culminated along with luck to get to where I am today.

SRG
I love that, luck’s important,

AB
Huge, like, I think it’s, it’s so understated, and I think that that type of bravado doesn’t allow us to examine our true skill sets and be honest with ourselves and others about, you know, what, what we can contribute. We tend to think of success as linear and something that could be passed down, but it doesn’t always, doesn’t always translate from one medium to another

SRG
Totally. I mean, there could be some, you know, I think this was super tangible with COVID, right? Like there was these macro shifts that, for some people, was absolutely devastating their business, and to other people who made it possible, you know, it would not have existed hadn’t been for COVID. So, you know, you can only control so much.

AB
Yeah, the pendulum swings,

DB
all right. So let’s, let’s talk about CBD. Why did you care about it, and why’d you start a business around it?

AB
You know, I was introduced to it. I had, like, my own experiences with cannabis that I’m not shy about, but I was introduced to CBD when the farm bill was passed. I moved out to Colorado. Some friends raised maybe 6 million in capital to start a company out there, and I got to see at the ground level what all the competition was doing. It was very, very much, You know, most people graduated from the marijuana industry over to the CBD industry, and I just didn’t found, I didn’t find the practices – whether they were business or agricultural – just didn’t, didn’t feel like they were going to succeed. And so I saw market opportunity, and what I ended up doing was, was moving back to Vermont, where the land is, frankly, a lot cheaper, and the soil is a lot nicer, and water is free, you know, comparatively to, like Colorado, buying a, you know, 100 acre farm for 1.2 million and spending 1.1 million on the water rights. So when, when I look at everything from a from a cogs perspective, I was like, I saw a straight line to building a product line here that should be able to, you know, correct a market, if not create a price moat at some point in time.

SRG
I love that. I think that’s a really good point; water, right? I mean, like, it’s, it’s one of the reasons Vermont will continue to be, I was going to say a hot spot, but that doesn’t make sense

DB
Poor choice,

SRG
I know

DB
poor choice of words

SRG
You’re picking up what I’m putting down, but I’m curious, just for folks listening that don’t know why people use CBD, can you talk a little bit about that?

AB
Sure, it’s like, it’s mostly empirical data. There’s not great science to back that up yet. So we don’t, we don’t make any claims. But I’ve had my own experiences with it. When I, when I moved out to there was the first time I tried it. I was like, ‘Oh, wow. This is like, calm.’ And then I was farming at the time, and that Colorado soil was so dry, it just like, beats up your hands and I was putting it on, it’s like, ‘Oh man, this feels good.’ And like I started believing in it. I am not somebody to change my diet or lifestyle unless I feel there are proven results there. And so this was really going out on a limb. And I think that, you know, the early adopters are the ones that were willing to go out on a limb. And here we are, you know, sort of like hit a market size, seems finite,

DB
Yeah, right, sort of reliving this memory here. So you move back to Vermont,

AB
yeah,

DB
tell us about the farm in Hardwick. And did you do this alone?

AB
No, my co founder, Jacob Goldstein, he and I reconnected in 2015 when we started Sunsoil. He’s somebody that I grew up with. I remember the day he was born.

SRG
What?

AB
He’s like, 10 years younger than me. You know, the back story to that is, I grew up in a cooperative community in New York, outside of New York City, and so, you know, our families, I, you know, continue to have a very intertwined relationship, along with quite a few others. So So Jacob was the perfect business partner. He’s somebody that I trusted implicitly since day one, and he’s also got a beautiful mind, and like we really, I hope to work with him for the rest of my life. He’s a good business partner.

SRG
Oh, that’s sweet

DB
And so Sam, when I went to first visit Jacob and Alejandro in Hardwick out at the old farmhouse, you know, there was like a big whiteboard on wheels and a ping pong table and, like, I don’t know, 130 acres. How big is the farm there? Is it…

AB
Well, we had leased some land that that farm was 52 acres.

DB
52 acres. Yeah. So explaining the dream, it was like, ‘Okay, guys, like, What is this stuff?’ You know, you couldn’t, you didn’t have a bank. Like, don’t, you couldn’t do e commerce very easily.

AB
Yeah

DB
Like, it was a little wild west. But, I mean, why did you think it had such promise, just because of what you had experienced?

AB
No, that’s a

DB
Or you saw that, what was the market opportunity?

AB
Before the market opportunity, it got personal, like I was meeting with people. I mean, people were just curious about it, like anything else that was born of hype. They’re, you know, people that had terminally ill diseases, people that weren’t mixing well with other medications. And I really did spend enough time to say I’ve met at least 100 people that this has affected their life, and it’s and it’s easy to do things when we don’t know what the outcome is going to be, when we have conviction. And for me to say that I knew market timing was correct, or anything like that would be an overstatement, but I went for it, and I went for it at the right time. And you know, it’s so far, it’s fared us well, and I think that we might have a long history as a company.

SRG
That’s awesome. Can you talk a little bit more about your role? And a lot of folks seek out co founders, and, you know, early days, you’re kind of figuring out, like, what is your role, what’s his role, what needs to be done? How does that scale?

AB
Oh man, we just would like, set the set the meal and just start chewing,

SRG
Yeah

AB
you know, it’s like we, he’s a great problem solver. I’m a great problem solver. Like me and him could talk out a lot in, you know, and it’s been nine years, so maybe we’re slow at it, but, you know, we talked a lot so, you know? But, yeah, I think, I think that a lot of it is just a trust and a social dynamic of like and respect for each other, you know, like, I don’t think you can work with somebody that you don’t love

SRG
Yeah

AB
or you know or like, or know and like, to pour your life into something with you know, shouldered up next to strangers is just, I don’t, I don’t think I would have been able to do it, you know, I think I was very lucky there too.

SRG
That’s awesome. So one of the things I would talk about is, you know, there, there are a lot of CBD companies out there. It sounds like to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, that your secret sauce is really the extraction process that y’all use? Can you talk a little bit about that?

AB
Sure, yeah, I think that what, what has led to our success was adding value to consumers compared to other products. In other words, you know, I think our agricultural operations are more efficient than most as well, and that’s one spot in the, you know, in the supply chain where we add value, and we built this out vertically integrated all the way to manufacturing in an organic certified facility in Hardwick, which we still do some of today. I think that that was one of the big solves. We took something that has been done on a stovetop and brought it to, and how to bring that forward to a scale. And it’s like, you know, it’s like looking at the Ben and Jerry scoopers, like I have so many bad ideas. I just leave no stone unturned, and I will get there, you know, and like, and I’ve paid for it, and I’ve learned to, like, slow down my cash burn when I get my bad ideas. But so, but like so, we’ve got to a spot with extraction, we had a really big breakthrough this past year, which is going to allow us to qualify to be a B Corp. I think we’re always going to try to find a better way to do things, and for us, that means reducing price, which allows us to lower cost, which we have a history of doing,

DB
Yeah, so why was, I mean, since day one, affordability and access to your CBD products was, was sort of the mission, right? Like it, it was sort of odd that you set out to drive down the average price to grow the market size versus keep it, you know, at $400 an ounce, or whatever it might have been back in the day, when it was just this cottage industry. So…

AB
I think that I have an altruistic turn for, you know, like, like, like, take on that. And I also, or that I could present. And I also think that there’s a functional aspect to it. I think that I don’t want to go shoulder to shoulder with anybody if I don’t have a competitive edge, if I’m not going to win the fight, I don’t want, I don’t want to get involved, you know, like so and, and I think, you know, getting, getting something that helps people out there at a low cost is… seems like a value add to society, you know, and, and I think that when I, when I talk about the future of this company, I talk about, you know, the farm really competing with pharmaceuticals by, like, you could spend $6 on a bottle of Advil right now. And, like, even our CBD, through our subscription, through all our discounts, it’s still gonna cost you, like, 20 bucks a month. And like, you’re not gonna get the same pain relief that you do from a $6 bottle of Advil. And some people prefer not to take Advil, but we need to get this to $6 in order to have a true, you know, apples to apples comparison, and let people decide. And I think that that has to be the focus for a lot of these alternative medicines and plants that have benefits, and that’s something that we’re looking to bring forward.

Break
You’re listening to Start Here, a podcast from Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies. VCET is a public benefit corporation serving Vermont businesses from start to scale. We provide no cost strategic business advising for any business owner, regardless of stage or industry, as well as venture capital for early stage tech or tech enabled businesses. You can find us online at vcet.co that’s V-C-E-T dot C-O. If you like what you’re hearing, please help us out and rate, review, and subscribe to our podcast today. Now, back to the show.

SRG
That’s yeah, that makes sense when you explain it that way. But I imagine, you know, because you’re organic, and, you know, you it’s, you know, vertically integrated, and you know, there’s probably good years and bad years, like that’s really hard to achieve. Is that something that you’ve kind of, you’ve you’ve set and you’ve been aiming for it and will continue to do so, or is that?

AB
Oh, the $6 bottle?

SRG
Yeah

AB
Oh, that’ll just come with increased run rates. We, I, you know, we have gap certified financials. I have a path forward to get this done. If I had the same market share as our number one competitor, we would be there,

SRG
yeah,

AB
you know, and we would have built a price moat and really gotten a product that that that is not very expensive to make to the people.

SRG
Yeah

AB
And you know, again, like the higher the quality product, and the lower the cost, the greater the value we add. And that is important to me. And like anything we touch, it’s all about creating value for people, so yeah

SRG
I love that. So talk to us a little bit about how, how you’re getting your customers. Because, you know, if volume is important, obviously, and there is competition out there, what does this strategy look like?

AB
Oh, well, I could draw this out for you. Um, no, it’s, it’s really, you know, it’s a lot of left foot, right foot. I think the industry was slated to be something a lot bigger than it was. I think it’s a lot smaller than they, they say it is. And we’ve, we’ve held pretty steady. In terms of top of funnel, you know, we’re restricted. We’re learning how to advertise on Instagram, on Facebook. It’s, you know, these aren’t my favorite mediums, but I just, how do you reach people? You know, that’s what you’re asking me, and, and this has been very grassroots. It’s been very restrictive. You know, we can’t just go spend money on Google Ad Words. We’re not on, we can’t go on Amazon. We can’t share this through CBS or any of the traditional brick and mortar stores. It’s still, it’s still niche and, and that’s the economy that we’re functioning in and things can happen with the FDA, and people are betting they will, or betting they won’t, where this could open up, and then, you know, it’ll, it’ll be life support for some of these bad business models. So I kind of like where things are today, yeah

DB
and how much your business is, you know, on the shelf and natural stores versus e commerce?

AB
Great question. It really shifted. You know, it was like 60-40, and now I would say it’s like 85-15

DB
85 e-commerce

AB
E-com, 15%, and we see ways to change that, where, you know, but it’s still, it’s still finite, the market size for the amount of like, you don’t have companies with, too many companies with over billion dollar market caps carrying CBD, so it’s like no Albertsons, no Kroger. They’re not carrying ingestibles, and so

DB
Got it, so product is different. And so other than the margin benefits by selling direct,

AB
yeah,

DB
you know what? What sort of customer insights or new product development are you able to get? Are you getting any that benefit

AB
Yeah, yeah

DB
from that proximity? Let’s hear it man, tell us

AB
Yeah, I’m like, I’m just gonna preach about the future and like, what I see for the company and what we’re working on, but it is all data driven. You know, we have 200,000 active users, and I, on our newsletter,

SRG
Wow

AB
whatever, thingy, thingy and, and so, yeah, you know, like, we really, I mean, I love data, you know, surveys, stuff like that, learning customer insights. And we’ve recently learned, you know, how many of our customers would consider purchasing supplements from us. So we’ve, we’re going to be coming out with a completely organic gummy supplement line.

SRG
Cool!

DB
to to, you know, give our customers a better value. Because we know, I’ve, you know, we’ve looked at the numbers. Can we do this? We’re not trying to, like, squeak out more top line growth. I’m not trying to, like, build a company and shovel it off to somebody else, you know what I mean? So it’s always the question is like, can we add value? Can we be competitive…Do we have a competitive advantage? And if those two answers are yes, I get excited.

DB
Alright, so earlier in the conversation, you said just, you know, the floor is littered with all these ideas you tried and things you had to turn over,

AB
Yeah, yeah yeah

DB
right? So since you’ve gotten, let’s call it, you know, critical mass with your your your size of customer base, and the data it has like, has that improved your your fail rate or success rate?

AB
Oh no, absolutely, look. Well, it’s like, the more money you make if you keep your R and D budget the same, it just like, it looks better on paper, you know. So it’s like, but I don’t know if that answers your question but uh,

DB
Well

AB
But do I make? Let, yeah, look, inspiration is fleeting, you know, like, I’m not, I’m not trying to, you know, solve all the minuscule problems. I see the big the big picture now, and I stay very focused on that, and it still comes with its share of improvisational thinking. But I’m not trying to weld things.

DB
And when you and Jacob are sort of hashing out direction, are y’all like using the data to go back to one another as you ideate or make decisions?

AB
Oh, yeah. And it’s, it’s more involved than that. We’ve, like, I mean, Vermont’s got some, some beautiful minds, like we’ve, we’ve employed people that that are just as obsessed with problem solving as we are, that have been with us for a while, and they’ve seen how much we’ve changed. Like, I think we’re the only company in the history of companies, we just dropped our prices because we could, you know, as like, and

SRG
That’s pretty badass, that’s a pretty badass move

AB
It is, but that’s our aspiration.

SRG
Yeah

AB
It’s not talk. It’s like, you know, we make a fine living and stuff like that. What more do we need? And I think the people need this more. So, you know, we’re, we’re trying to build something that’s going to serve people. We’ll see.

SRG
I love that, and I have to acknowledge, like you said, you’re, you’re not trying to build this company and shovel it off to someone else. So let’s hone in on that a little bit like, what, what was the goal when you started this company, long term? And how has that changed, if at all?

AB
I don’t know if I’m that much of a forward thinker. I just kind of started digging. I was like, if I grow this, and I squish that, I turn it into that, I can sell that,

SRG
yeah,

AB
and it really did, you know, I had a sense of a market developing. I had a sense of building a company. But it was like, I’m comfortable sort of jumping and feeling it out and and I think that’s, that’s how we’ve got here, you know, for better or for worse.

DB
So your, your role has changed, and then it returned. So you were CEO, then you brought in a bunch of money with some noted professional, you know, investors

AB
Yeah

DB
and and I think it was almost $7 million from CrunchBase, if I recall, right? And then now you’re back as CEO. So just anything you can share about that journey, about sort of taking a different role,

AB
Yeah

DB
going for scale, and then seeing what’s happened

AB
It’s happened since the beginning, I’m still most comfortable on a tractor, you know, like, I still, I know, I know what, you know, what, what brings me peace of mind. But so, as you know, fast forward to CEO, past, CF, past all those other ones. As as CEO, I, you know, I, I’m a parent also. It’s, I think of it as, how do we get this thing functioning on its own, you know, like, if it has a finite value to add to society, I’m going to work on something else, you know. How do we how do we get it to there? How do we get it moving on its own? So, I saw coming down the pipeline, some sideways growth. I saw how the exuberance of early investors, early farmers, everyone led to this big you know, I don’t know mirage in the desert that that really, you know, hurt a lot of people. But I you know, beyond that, I knew there was going to be this, like few year window of just sideways growth, like there wasn’t a lot of market opportunity. I hired a strong D to C person, and then I saw an opportunity to spend some time with my daughter and take a little bit more of a back seat. And I did, and I was happy to turn over the keys and let somebody give it a go that had some some good experience and good credential, but there was no code to be cracked during that period of time, we were just gathering information, getting efficient, and setting our sights on the future, and I think that we are turning a new chapter now, which I’ll talk about.

SRG
Well, I mean, with a lead up like that,

DB
total setup, like

AB
Alright, fine, I’ll talk about myself and my company.

SRG
Twist my arm, yeah.

DB
Twist my arm

AB
Yeah. Let’s see. I think, I think that our next chapter is, is going to be that of a wellness company. I think that I would love to see everything we do done in Vermont. And I know the numbers, and I know with scale we can and I’m like, I want to grow lemon trees here. I want to do things that can’t be done because I want our products to have our hands on all of those ingredients. You know, we’re launching stuff with ashwagandha. I’ve been researching how we can do this. We can, you know, run greenhouses off of wood fired stuff like, where there’s a will, there’s a way, so. But we need, we need, you know, market share slash support, to sort of live out all this idealism. And there’s, there’s steps we need to take to get there, and we’re doing that, and I’m really excited about, you know, we’re just launching, actually today, I think, we’re launching our functional gummies. It’s like CBD with ashwagandha, or CBD with passionflower for kami, and all USDA certified organic. And the largest market share in CBD, and growing market is in these areas, because now I can advertise sleep, so I haven’t touched on this stuff yet. So we’re really expecting a real hockey stick here of revenue, I’m kinda excited

DB
You always impress me. I mean, except you didn’t bring any samples for

AB
you know, Dave, I’m like

DB
Or is that illegal or what?

SRG
This is awkward

DB
I know where you live. I will find you

AB
I will. I will mail you some. It’s just much easier, it’s like less miles

DB
Well you know where my house is, just the mailbox is there.

AB
Yes yes, I will, if there’s something slimy in the mailbox

DB
Well that’s an exciting chapter there.

AB
Yeah

DB
So what advice would you have for other Vermont entrepreneurs?

AB
Speak with David Bradbury,

DB
Yeah, yeah well, maybe, maybe Sam, Nicole

AB
I just have experience with you

DB
That’s true, right? Somehow, we’re still talking nine years later.

SRG
If you want that hockey stick, come to me.

AB
Yeah, alright, right right

DB
Yeah right, totally. But really, you know the trade off, did you have to take outside money because of the market conditions?

AB
Did not have to take outside money

DB
Or, because that’s a big deal, right? That’s a different racetrack, different pace, different set of expectations?

AB
It was a huge deal. You think it’s like, you’re gonna make it event? And we didn’t. We had money in the bank at that time. We, you know, I run a profitable company, like, out of the gate, I was just like, if it doesn’t make money, it doesn’t make sense to me. You know, it’s not, it’s not sustainable. I mean, that that’s when you build companies to shovel. It’s like, when you’re just chasing top line.

SRG
I’m gonna pull that one for a quote, for sure,

AB
yeah, the Vermont, Vermont entrepreneur term, shoveling, yeah, so, where was I?

DB
Well, it’s about the money,

AB
Oh money, yeah

DB
like, just like,

AB
So we, we took capital from investors that were very accomplished, and they’re awesome guys and, and, you know, we, we all thought there was going to be a much bigger market than there was. And, you know, we were in Targets planogram when we were raising capital, but they never launched. And we, you know, like, and, and so, you know, I think it, it, it sort of, you know, set us up for disappointment in terms of how we could each be helpful to each other, to be quite honest. And I think, you know, it’s like from an investment standpoint, it’s just, it’s, you know, market conditions and the broader market determined how, how poorly investors did, and they got beaten on, you know, companies like Charlotte’s Web raised $340 million you know, to to get to $60 million in revenue today, and that’s all investor dollars. You know, that’s not generating value.

DB
Stunning

AB
Sorry, I shouldn’t. But like, but like, it does infuriate me. And like, I don’t know if you guys watch Curve Your Enthusiasm, like spite store. My, I build spite businesses that are going to serve the people, you know, whether it’s going to be real estate, this or that. Like, I just, I see better ways to do things when it’s not just about amassing wealth, it’s adding value, and you get to make money doing that. Like, how awesome, you know?

SRG
Yeah, you don’t sound like the entrepreneur that would raise capital.

AB
I was on the fence right up to signing day, and even on signing day,

SRG
yeah, just hand shaking down the line

SRG
I really, I really thought that more doors would open, and it was market conditions, rather than their ability.

DB
It was still a hype cycle of CBD’s coming…

AB
It was still a hype cycle coming and so, so we raised capital, and we really, under some advice, like, like, built our company up way bigger than it needed to be. And, you know, it’s easy to raise money, and it’s easy to find hire, people to hire when you raise money. And that was easy, but, but, you know, growing in a finite market just wasn’t possible. And the sooner we sobered up with that, the sooner we could get ourselves back to a healthy, positive cash flow.

DB
You know, you just have to look at the acreage down on 115

AB
Yeah

DB
that used to have plants for a couple years.

AB
Yeah,

DB
then, or back to corn, or whatever the heck they’re growing.

AB
Yeah, yeah. We’ve, yeah, I’ve seen it, and I feel terrible and and I’m always happy to chat with people or consult them if they ever want my advice. But, you know, just a lot of folks lost money, and a lot of, like, the middle class, loses money in these investments, you know, and in cannabis in general, I just see a lot of bad business practices being, you know, touted as awesome because it’s cannabis. I’m like, ‘No, these are still bad businesses, you know?’ like, like, I even if I believe in the product, I just I think that the public can be served better. And

DB
Well, you have, I mean, it’s a train coming of oversupply, overbuild quality is all over the place, price has to go down, and then it’s tough for everybody to support themselves. So

SRG
Can you talk a little bit, like you talk about having a sustainable business from the start, which I love,

AB
Yeah

SRG
I think in a similar way. Did you bootstrap, you know that first year, whatever?

AB
Yeah

SRG
Or did you you use, you know, any sort of, you know, friends and family, or, I assume you weren’t bankable?

AB
It was my money.

SRG
Yeah, great.

AB
Yeah, I had saved, you know, enough to get this thing off the ground. And I think that, and Jake put in some money too.

SRG
Yeah,

AB
we put in a couple 100,000 to get us going.

SRG
Yep,

AB
maybe a few at the most. I’m gonna check my receipts

SRG
Yeah

DB
And what’s out at the farm still today in Hardwick?

AB
Oh, right now, we’ve, we’ve got

DB
Besides the ping pong table.

AB
Yeah, we’ve, I mean, that still gets used as a desk. It’s like, it’s flooded with, like, samples of this, samples of that, whatever. We still do manufacturing out there. We have an organic certified manufacturing facility. We we do make our two piece capsule out there. We can fill our tincture bottles when we need to. We do all of our extraction out there, which is, you know, come check it out sometime. It’s like, it’s like

DB
Well I remember the little, the little pressure cooker,

AB
Nah, nah

DB
you know, back in the day, and

AB
Like one of mine wouldn’t fit in this room, it’s like…

DB
And like, Sam, they were like, ‘Oh, hey, here’s our new pill machine.’ And literally, they were like, hand pressing 100 pills at a time or something, it was so cute

AB
Yeah yeah, oh, man, yeah. Like

DB
I was like fuck, that’s not gonna scale, no way

AB
Yeah, our first order was like, for, for, oh, man, what is that? It’s over here. I don’t get out much. One of the big…

SRG
city market?

AB
Oh, no. They were like, our, no, they came on actually late, Eli’s place.

SRG
Oh, healthy living?

AB
Healthy Living yeah! They were like, our, one of our first people. Like, I was like, speaking with their buyer. I was like, talking into him. Like, ‘Hey, man,’

SRG
You’re like, ‘Of course we can have it to you by then…’

AB
Yeah of course, And then it’s like, we’re like, like, up all night, like, we just, like, that explains it. It was like we were writing checks that we could barely cash and getting it done. And it’s just like, make or break. And if you’re willing to do that, and you’re willing, and you and, you know, you’re realistic about what you can get done when you’re not. You know, sky’s the limit.

SRG
Put it on the line. Helps have your own skin in the game there too, right?

AB
Yeah. Look, that came from, from, you know, having a positive venture with that prior CBD company,

SRG
yeah,

AB
you know, I took that money I was like, CBD company,

SRG
yeah.

DB
So anything that sticks out that you’re like, shoot, I wish I’d done this differently,

AB
everything, oh my gosh

DB
Alright, well can you narrow it down? Because we do need to keep this to a short podcasts

AB
Everything I do?

DB
You know, from either the startup phase or not

AB
You know I would, I don’t know that I would have taken capital for a few reasons, but mostly because I think it would’ve allowed us to think about growth slower and not misstep. It was cool raising capital, and I’m really thankful for the experience and the relationships I have. Just objectively, like startup wise, I think our exuberance, our desire to get big, is just like any other untempered, enthusiastic child. And I, I still put myself in that boat, by the way, like, because I’ve got tall aspirations. But yeah, so I, yeah

DB
Alright, well, I’ve been saying, Yeah, bigger is bigger. Better is better. Let’s be better.

AB
Yeah

DB
Hope better is best,

AB
yeah

SRG
And just like, you know, flipping that question a little bit in a sort of proactive way, if you’re meeting with a first time entrepreneur and they’re just getting started, what’s some of your advice?

AB
I would say you would have to at least be in love with part of the process of what you do, and be realistic if you know, if you’re in love with your product or your process or your aspirational goals, and I don’t think that ultimately, if you don’t have conviction in what you’re peddling, you know, it ain’t gonna fly. And like, you know, we can, we can, we can sell conviction and enthusiasm in small, in small doses, to small people and small groups. But to get something adapted, it really, it really does have to, it does have to be something that like you would want, and hopefully you’re not an outlier demographic,

SRG
Right! And you said the process too, right? Like, you can’t just like your product. You have to like the sort of road to get there too.

AB
That was my process, you know

SRG
Yeah

AB
like, some people are gonna stumble forward and backwards, just like I didn’t. Other people might be smarter and see better shortcuts, like, I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t have any advice, except, like, if you believe you will get it done, and if you don’t believe, you won’t get it done, it’s like, it’s pretty binary.

SRG
Another bumper sticker,

DB
Magic wand time, Sam

AB
Oh gosh

SRG
Is it? Do I get it?

DB
Go for it

SRG
Alright, if you could change one thing in Vermont today, with a magic wand, what would you change?

DB
Told you this was coming! Well, I didn’t say the question, but I,

AB
You know, I want to do some broad answer, like the ecosystem as a whole. I think this place offers such exceptional lifestyle, and I would love to see, like, more job retention from our graduates. I would, I really would like to see Vermont have like, its own flavor, like even more so, you know, like California has its flavor and different pockets there. I’d like to see Vermont find more of its identity, of who it is today, and I think that that will help our GDP. I think it’ll, I think we could, I think we could, you know, I think it’s a great place, and everything can be improved.

DB
Aright, well,

SRG
I thought for sure were going lemon trees

DB
Lemon trees is the flavor, right?

AB
Wait, can I retract my statement, yes

DB
I love it, I love it, well Alejandro, thank you for coming in and sharing a little bit of your journey and that of Jacob’s, this has been Start Here, a podcast sharing the stories of active, aspiring, accidental entrepreneurs. The series is supported by the Vermont Technology Council and Consolidated Communications.